Chile Looks Back to the Future: Celebrating Young Artisans and Ancient Vines

Class transcript

Have you all with us this Sunday as every Sunday. Thank you for making this part of your weekly routine. It is, as ever, humbling to have, you know, the kind of audience that we do for the sake of this, you know, low-budget enterprise that we are engaged in for the sake of Tale of Goat Wine School. We are taping today from our luxurious office. It should be said, my business partner, Jill Tyler, her father, her dad, Richard, has this theory about successful businesses, and he says that the more successful the business, the less attractive the office, and you know, by that standard, we should be like restaurants by this time, and at any rate, I'm thrilled to be joining you from our kind of not quite subterranean lair in the center of the Tale of Goat space.

We are, we remain on lockdown stateside, but the glory of wine is its power to transport the way it speaks to a sense of place, and we can explore the wine world together, explore the world together. So let's take a moment to think, and experience the history of the culture of applied wine through what goes into our glass, and that's what we're going to do today. We are headed south of the equator once more, we've visited New Zealand, we visited South Africa recently, and thrilled this time out to be visiting South America, and to be visiting the fabulous country of Chile, which is a huge export market, the world's fourth largest, but incredibly popular, and incredibly popular, and increasingly, um, is an emerging wine scene for the sake of more artisanal, offerings.

Um, and,, those are the wines that we are going to celebrate today., we have fully six wines, um, on offer, um, for,, the sake of, um, you know, the, the packs that we sponsored through our wine store. I have one of, um, three whites on display., the staff got a little overzealous, um, and,, I did, um,, too good a job of, um,, hand-selling,, the Riesling blend. So, um, we are out of that,, sadly. The,, Reveller's Hour staff took a liking to that one,, last night. So, um,, I will have to speak from experience about that particular bottle, but,, we do have,, the other Mescla Aromatica,, white offering,, to kick things off,, for,, today's class.

Um, for those of you wondering, you know, where to start, you know, as always, I encourage you to go from, you know, lighter, um, brighter whites, you know, the Riesling blend, that Rafael Tirado is the perfect place to start. This is a slightly more, um, you know, rich, unctuous kind of wine for reasons that I'll enumerate, um, you know, in, the fullness of time. Um, but, you know, I would encourage you to, you know, try to, as a taster, let go of, you know, this notion that there is a, a correct order in which to try things. Part of the reason that, you know, we taste wine side by side is that, you know, my hope is that you'll move back and forth and that, you know, you will, um, allow yourself to, try to pick apart, you know, how one wine is different from the other.

And, and I think, you know, in tasting, um, as in life, it is useful to have a foil and, you know, something, on its own sometimes it is, is a little difficult to, um, you know, pick apart, um, to, um, break down, what I love about tasting wines one against the other, um, is that, you know, it allows you to, um, you know, tease out the differences and, and hopefully it's more illuminating, than tasting things without any kind of, context. So, yeah, absolutely. Um, I think we have a purgatory in our wait list again. Would you mind just checking in on that for me? Um, there, there's no purgatory that I can see though.  Um, you know, if you could, you could check the, wine school email to confirm that, um, there's no one that doesn't have the link, but, um, there should be no, um, wine school purgatory today, that I know of, um, two different links. The one that said click here and the one on top, the click here was from last week. Oh, wow. Um, that is entirely, um, my fault then. Um, so Zoe, um, if you could, can you, hop online and, and correct that error? Um,, thank you so much. Um, apologies to all of you who had, who had difficulty, with that.

Um, you know, you would think that we have this, down after, 19 lessons on to our 20th, but, um, naturally, um, you know, we continue to find ways to, royally fuck it up. Um, but, thank you all, for, your patience, um, and for your perseverance, in, in joining us. Um, all right, let's get down to it. Um, it is a dog days. Um, we have some, fresh, whites. We have, the ultimate,  summary, chilled red wine in Pupino, which is, um, you know, the most iconic, Chilean product. Um, and, you know, we are thrilled, to have our thirst slate, um, with these offerings, it should be said that, um, it is,  winter, um, south of the equator.

, and as such, we have some meatier, denser,, red wines to, help things, a lot, there, as well. Um, this being a, Chilean lessoh, naturally, um, we'll be starting things off with a bit of verse and, who else, um, you know, could, we reference, but, um, the one, um, and, the only,, Mr, Pablo Neruda,, the ultimate,, Chilean diplomat poet. Um, this is from his, elementary odes. Um, Neruda was a favorite of mine as an undergraduate, as a Latin American history, um, student. Um, I kind of graduated to other poets, thereafter. He's kind of a perfect, freshman, lit, poet, Neruda, but we love him, all the same. he writes about wine, you know, fluidly, and gracefully. Um, this is, the final stanza from his poem, Ode to Wine, but you are more than love, the fiery kiss, the heat of fire, more than the wine of life, you are the community of man, translucency, chorus of discipline, abundance of flowers. I like on the table when we're speaking the light of a bottle of intelligent wine. Drink it, and remember in every drop of gold, in every topaz glass, in every purple ladle, that autumn labored to fill the vessel with wine. And in the ritual of his office, let the simple man remember to think of the soil and of his duty to propagate the canticle of wine.

So, each in our own way today, we are, are propagating, that canticle. Um, and, you know, thank you all, for joining us. Um, for those of you that, again, you know, struggled, to, join us today, thank you, for, your, your due diligence in, um, persevering, thrilled to have you with us. Um, we're gonna kick things off, um, you know, with a tour de force of Chilean history. I'm fond of saying that studying wine, if you did, deeply enough, is very much like studying, um, world history, it is a very Western perspective because fine wine, which derives from the great bit of Spanifera, the species originated, um, in the Caucasus Mountains and spread west from there.

And, you know, the first cultures really predicated on, um, you know, a, a cult of wine, um, Greece and then Rome, um, you know, gave birth to Western civilization, as we know it. But, um, if you tease out, you know, the study of wine history enough, you learn a lot about, Western civilization. And, we're going to look at, um, you know, the history of Chile, um, through, its kind of relationship, with Vitis vinifera. That's really fascinating. So, you know, first and foremost, important to note that Chilean history doesn't begin, um, with, you know, Spanish colonization, with Spanish occupation. It started 10,000 years ago, um, when, um, you know, the first indigenous American settlers crossed the land bridge and made their way down to, the skinny Western spine of, South America.

And, it should be noted, geographically, um, we are dealing with, um, a very isolated place in Chile. So, um, this is, our usual wine folly, um, map and good on her for the excellent graphics that, um, they always provide us with. But, um, we're gonna be kind of switching gears for the sake of another map, um, that, you know, has Argentina in a mix, which I think is kind of fun, when we dive into the individual regions. What I like about this is that, you know, we can see South America, um, you know, down here at the bottom. Um, and you can see, you know, this preposterous little chili pepper of a nation that is Chile.

Um, you know, it is, you know, geographically unique, um, in the world, um, but, um, it is, um, you know, coherent, um, for the sake of, um, itself geographically, because you have, you know, these physical barriers, um, on either side. So, to the north, um, you have, um, the southern part of the country in the north. You have, um, the south part of the country in the north. So, um, there's a lot that are between the two regions. The Atacama Desert, which is one of the driest in the world, they're actually making wine there these days. Needless to say, they get a little help along with some irrigation, but there are grapes there these days.

And then to the east, you have the barrier of the high Andes, and then to the south you have the southern Antarctic Ocean, which includes and embodies some of the stormiest seas in the world, the Strait of Magellan, the Antarctic currents that keep Chile much cooler than it would be otherwise given its latitude. Chile is spread from about 25 degrees to almost 50 kind of south latitude, but the major growing regions encompass the equivalent regions of North Africa and southern Spain, but they are much cooler than you would imagine due to the influence of the Humboldt Ocean current that sweeps up from Antarctica and provides an important cooling influence, much the same way that the currents off the coast of California keep it much cooler and ensure that all the surfers there have to wear wetsuits.

But we are actually going to be, you know, kind of taking a bizarro tour of Chilean kind of vineyards and history. It should be noted that, you know, for the sake of these classes, Chile, South Africa, you know, you are pursuing not necessarily a conventional, you know, lesson plan. You are pursuing, you know, my perverse take on what is interesting about this corner of the wine world. And it should be said that Chile is dominated by four major brands, which constitute 80 percent of the wine industry. This is a huge problem in Chilean history, this notion of oligarchies, ruling oligarchies, and, you know, these families and their descendants that have an outsized impact on, you know, the economy and the political sphere in Chile. But we're going to explore that other 20 percent.

That other 20 percent is always more illuminating, always more interesting to me. And so we're going to take kind of a through-the-looking-glass, you know, let's explore the negative space kind of view of things for the sake of today's lesson. But, you know, let's start with the present. So let's consider, you know, the Spanish, you know, kind of presence there. Because the Spanish find their way to Chile through Peru, just to the north. And Pizarro conquers the Inca. He finds riches in Peru. But originally, Chile is not much of much interest to the first generation of Spanish settlers in South America. It doesn't have much to offer the Spanish. It is very fertile. And for a long time, the farms of Chile provide agricultural riches to the Peruvian colony.

But in terms of natural resources, gold and silver, you see a lot of mining in modern-day Bolivia and in modern-day Peru. But the products that Chile has to offer the Spanish Empire aren't much, you know, of much interest to the crown half a world away. And as such, Chile emerges as a bit of a backwater for the Spanish. And there's a huge English influence there. And the Chileans, you know, very early on in their history, become much more, you know, kind of independent of Spanish colonial influence than the regions that are more closely tied to the crown in Peru, in Alta Colombia, and in Mexico. So Chile is a very, very is a little bit apart. And that's significant for the sake of wine as well, because the Spanish wanted to drive wine sales of their own Spanish wines from the mother country.

And very early on, Chile develops a strong local industry, because they're far enough removed from the major, you know, kind of trade networks that always pass through by law Peru, that if they want to get their drink on, they have to do it locally. So in Chile, they have, you know, one of the oldest kind of continuous, you know, wine scenes in our corner of the Americas. So, you know, the notion of commercial production there is for centuries going on strong. What grapes are we dealing with, though? This is a really fascinating question. Originally, it would have been Spanish grapes. So it was dominated by grapes like Palomino and Pedro Jimenez. They're coming from southern Spain, which were the original points of disembarkation for the fleets that made their way to the New World.

But also, you have Muscat of Alexandria, which goes by a bunch of synonyms. Muscatel, Malvasia, chief among them. And then a grape that we'll get to in a second, which is the common black grape in Spanish. It goes by a number of different synonyms: Mission, it goes by Criolla Chica, Mission (in Spanish), Michon (in Mexico), Mission (in what is now California), Criolla Chica (in Argentina), Ais (in Chile), and Lisam Prieto (in the Canary Islands). And it is the predominant grape historically through the 19th century, both in Argentina and in Chile, until the French have a stronger cultural imprint. But for the sake of our white wines to start, we're dealing with a family of grapes called the criollas. And this notion of the creole is really fascinating in the context of Latin American history.

You have basically what was born in Spain, but what was or what originated in Spain, but was then kind of born in the colonies. And creoles were, in the context of Latin American history, people that were born in the New World but of Spanish history, of Spanish ancestry. And we have a series of grapes that, you know, come from the same tradition. And this is one of them. We have here Semillon, which is originally a grape from Bordeaux. And we'll talk about the Bordelais impact on Chilean wine history in just a second, but here we're focusing on the other grape in the mix, which is Torontel. And Torontel is itself the offspring of this grape we identified earlier, Pais, otherwise known as Lisam Prieto, and Mascot of Alexandria.

And it is a highly aromatic grape. And historically, it constituted a bulk of the plantings in Peru and a bulk of the older vineyards. And this one hails from the region of Múale, which is the oldest region in Peru. And what I love about the Mascot family is that you are dealing with a series of highly aromatic grapes. So for those of you drinking at home, you're going to start, you know, with the Rapi El Tirado, the Riesling blend, which has a solid bit of Torontel in the mix. So, you know, that Riesling, it's the ballast. It's the backbone of that wine. It gives it the acidity, but the Torontel gives it its aromatic dimension. And here you have Semillon and Torontel. And this wine comes from González Byass.

It is a husband and wife team, José and Daniela. They're making wine very much the old way. Again, you're in the Maule valley, very close to Concepción, which is the original port city that the Spanish utilized in Chile for the sake of driving trade. And much of the old vines stocked in Chile is found in that Maule region. And here you have old vines, but not as cartoonishly old as we're going to deal with later for the sake of Chile. These were planted in the 60s. But it should be said that José's family traces its roots to the early 1800s in terms of their winemaking in the region. And the Warfield Tirado wine, the Riesling blend, is made in a slightly more kind of, you know, traditional modern style.

It is aged in concrete; concrete alert. This was Pee Wee's Playhouse. You know, we even have the couches freaking out, because I know you all love your concrete aging. Warfiel Tirado, hugely talented, young vigneron, has an amazing swath of hair. We can see here that the vineyards, as is par for the course in the foothills of the Andes, are cartoonishly beautiful. Chile is a land of hugely well-trained vignerons, both locally and globally. They take full advantage of the fact that in the southern hemisphere they can work other harvests in the north. They're worldly. They are as proficient and highly trained as any vigneron as you will find across the world. The Tirado offering Asian concrete is a little more stylistically modern. Gonzales Bethias, coming from this long tradition of winemaking in Jose's family, they do things the old way.

This is not a wine that is a whole clustered press in a traditional sense. This is a wine that's processed on a traditional bamboo mat called a zaranda. So for those of you playing along at home, this is a zaranda. You can see here they're dealing with red grapes, but it's a way to de-stem the grapes and then press the grapes on these bamboo mats and then the juice sluices through into typically a kind of larger open-top lagarre or pipa where the wine is then fermented. And it's a more oxidative style of winemaking. So those of you tasting between these wines at home, I think you'll get a sense that Rafael Tirado's Riesling blend is pure. It's cleaner. It has this wonderful almost Sauvignon Blanc-like, you know, kind of jalapeno note to it.

It is a great front porch, kind of like steely, slamable wine. The Semillon Torontel blend is a little more aromatic, but a little fleshier, a little weightier. And again, it has kind of a nuttier dimension to it. And that is because making wine, crushing wine on a bamboo mat like this, you're exposing the grapes to oxygen a bit more. And by fermenting in open top lagarres and then aging in some of the same kind of older, typically locally, they would use, you know, kind of local neutral wood for the aging. And you get a process that makes a wine that is more savory than it is, you know, clean and precise and aromatic. And I think you get a sense of the weight of this.

And then the Semillon is always going to bring some weight to the party. Semillon classically in France is the Sauternes grape. And, you know, it has, you know, skins that are fragile. But for me, it always brings some weight to the party. But for me, it always brings this wonderful waxiness to the table in its wines. And I think you definitely get a sense of that here. But, you know, kind of a fun one-two for the sake of the first of these two whites. And, you know, for the sake of our initial dive into Chilean wine history, you know, we are looking at, you know, this original Spanish imprint on the wine scene there and these Creole grapes. I can't think of a lot of instances, of a family of grapes that was born in the New World.

So it should be said that these are grapes that are all from the vinifera. So they're from the, you know, species of grapes that originally came, you know, from, you know, the European continent. But the crossings, the spontaneous crossings happened in South America and the Torrontes family in Argentina. They're genetically distinct and there are a whole bunch of them. Mendocino, Riojano, and, you know, San Juan. um, that are genetically distinct, but related and come about of the same process of this, like, um, you know, intermescla, this, this, you know, um, European, um, you know, kind of cross pollination, but happening, um, in, uh, the colonies now, as opposing, as opposed to, you know, the new world.

Um, you know, so you have this old world paradigm, but being born again, um, in Chile, in Argentina, in a really exciting way and kind of starting to become their own, um, in the context of the Chilean, uh, wine industry. And that for me is, is what's so exciting about the Torontal grape as these younger winemakers, uh, come to rediscover it, uh, in Chile. Uh, Zoe, um, do we have any questions, um, from, uh, the commentariat about, uh, the first two wines? Yeah, absolutely. I was wondering if you could, um, tell the difference between the Scott and Malvasia? Um, often the two are used, um, interchangeably. Um, this comes from, uh, Muscat is a very ancient grape, um, that, um, comes from the Southern Mediterranean, maybe not come from, uh, Southern Greece.

Um, and it has a lot of different, uh, synonyms and a lot of different subtypes, um, of which Malvasia, the Candida is one, uh, which, uh, had its, um, roots in, uh, probably, in Crete, uh, which Muscat of Alexandria, the Alexandria there, um, Egyptian originally, um, uh, but, um, that is the, uh, subtype that found a home, um, in Pantelleria off the coast of, um, Sicily, uh, found a home in, in Sicily itself under the name Zibibo, uh, but is the most, uh, widely celebrated Muscat for the sake of dessert wines, but made its way to the New World, um, as well. And that is the, uh, particular subtype of Muscat, which was crossed with Criotto, which we're going to get to for the sake of the, um, uh, Pais, uh, wines that we're going to dive into here shortly.

Um, but that's the one, uh, that is the parent of, um, these, uh, Criolla, uh, grapes. And you know it should be said a lot of the science of, um, uh, genotyping grapes is very new, you know, um, really, uh, kind of, uh, took leaps and bounds forward in the 1990s. And much of what we know about this family tree of these grape varietals, uh, comes from pioneering work done by people like, um, you know, Carol Meredith at UC Davis. Um, uh, there's a really strong, um, uh, Spanish contribution to that field. Um, and then these, like, other corners of the world, um, where you have intellectually curious vineyards, you know, wanting to, uh, trace, um, their history. Uh, it should be said that much like, you know, um, a bull mastiff, uh, can breed with a shih tzu.

Um, you know, these are all part of the same, uh, you know, um, kind of, uh, species, um, you know, uh, much like dogs are. These are just, you know, uh, breeds of the same species. Um, you know, so, uh, they can, uh, intermix, uh, and intermingle. Um, and, you know, in a wild context that happens all the time, um, you know, grapes are prone to quite a bit of genetic mutation from one generation to the next. And they, um, you know, with some exceptions, um, uh, the grape, uh, vinifera does not self-pollinate. Um, the grape, um, species, uh, on this side of, um, the, uh, the world will, um, you know, self-pollinate. But, um, uh, vinifera, you know, typically, uh, does not.

So each grape vine, uh, you know, in a traditional, uh, vineyard is genetically distinct, um, you know, in a really fascinating way. Um, but, uh, very often people will take graftings, um, from a single, uh, vine to propagate it, um, to create, um, a genetically identical, um, uh, clone or they'll work with, um, a nursery to have genetically identical clones. Um, but historically, um, uh, vineyards were, um, you know, very much, um, you know, uh, heterodox, um, for the sake of the plant material that was contained therein. What else you got, Em? Um, is Torontal the same as Torontes? It is not. Um, so Torontal is otherwise known as Muscateloverti, Amarillo. I'm very excited to trot out my my Spanish accent for the sake of this production, but the Torontes family is very much a family of grapes.

It is not a genetically distinct individual varietal. It is a family of grapes that was born in South America from a bunch of different cross kinds of pollinations of these older varietals. Most of them are descendants of Lisan Prieto, which we'll get to in a second, but they are genetically as distinct and they have different properties. That said, they're very productive so the Spanish were looking for grapes that they can make a shit ton of wine out of. Typically, they were looking for you know a shit ton of wine for the sake of communion. You know, whatever the faults of the Catholic Church, you know; they were encouraging people to make a shit ton of wine. To get their drink on, both in antiquity and in the modern era.

And the friars that made their way to the new world, one of their chief concerns when they got here was, how do we make sacramental wine? So that's how the industry got kickstarted in a lot of these places. But again, there are different types of Torontes, Torontel that we're talking about in this particular wine is genetically distinct from the three major sub-varietals of Torontes that you will find in Argentina. And then there are a whole bunch of other obscure subtypes that you'll find as well. And again, this is an emerging field. And in older vineyards, it's not the case that you're going to find genetically identical plants. Everything would be kind of co-planted, you know, from one grapevine to the next.

And these older vineyards, on that we're going to start talking about, about these hundred-year-old vineyards, these 200-year-old vineyards, they're very much a time capsule. You know, they're, you know, the ancestry.com of the, you know, grapevine world in a way that is hugely illuminating and fascinating to those of us that, you know, love to dig into the history of the trade. Awesome. I was going to wonder just how being close to the ocean and the proximity to the ocean is going to affect the history of the trade. The proximity of oceanic influences, how does that affect the terroir? And then how does that affect the wine at the end? That is an excellent question, Zoe. And, you know, will be a fun segue into our next, you know, field of study here.

So I'm going to bring up initially the map that you all kind of saw of Chile. And Chile is, again, you know, this preposterous, you know, geographical, you know, kind of country that looks like, you know, this long pepper that's been elongated, you know, or super skinny east to west and very long north to south. So wherever you are in Chile, you are proximate to the Pacific. So, you know, that proximity, you know, is always important for the sake of the, you know, the vines that grow there. That said, there is a spine of mountains that runs all the way to the Pacific. And so, you know, there's a spine of mountains that runs along the coast, the coastal mountain range in Chile.

In addition to the spine of mountains, the Andes that separates Chile from modern-day Argentina. So this is kind of a east-west cross-section of Chile. And throughout the major growing regions, the Central Valley, which stretches from Santiago, the capital, down to the Muale Valley, which is where all these wines that we're drinking currently are from, the Muale represents the southernmost extreme of the Central Valley. You have the coastal influence of the Humboldt Current, the Antarctic Ocean Current that I spoke to earlier. And then you have this coastal mountain range. It is not as, you know, kind of formidable as the Andes, but it does protect the Central Valley from that cooling influence. The Andes are much larger, and you have a cooling breeze, a cooling block of air that sweeps down from the Andes, such that your vineyards along the western edge of the valley here tend to be a lot warmer than the vineyards that are cooled by that cool air mass coming off the Andes to your east.

So throughout the Central Valley, you don't get as much of the cooling influence from the Humboldt Current. As you go south into the Valle Itata and the Muale Valley, which we'll explore for the sake of the Malbec in particular that we'll be drinking, those coastal influences become a lot more significant because the coastal mountain range kind of stops abruptly there. And you have direct exposure to the sea, much as in Santa Barbara, in California, you get more of that, you know, cooling influence of those oceanic currents. But here, we are headed to the Maule Valley, and we are going to further explore the, you know, true noble grape of Chile. So we talked about that original Spanish influence; flash-forward to the 19th century; flash-forward to the 1830s.

And Chile very much has a vibrant wine industry, but it's not based around the grapes from Bordeaux that we know and love today. It's not based around Cabernet Sauvignon, around these um French varietals it is based on this um odd grape that in Chile is known as país um that in other parts of the world is known as mission um you know has a million different range in Argentina criolla chica um it is a grape that originates um in Castilla Leon it originates in the heart of Spain it uh finds its way from there to the Canary Islands um which was one of the um kind of first Atlantic uh archipelagos uh that was colonized by the Spaniards uh when they decided to spread their wings and find their way to the new world um and uh it spread from there uh throughout uh central and south America uh it is very productive um it makes a lot of wine um that you know is unremarkable um but um it makes some really amazing wines now flash forward to the end of the 19th century and um throughout Europe um you have a blight called Phylloxera uh it is an aphid uh it originates in um the um kind of southern Mississippi Valley region of North America. Uh, but because the grapevine that um is going into all fine wines um in Europe, and the fine wines made from European vines in uh the Americas, because it has no natural resistance to uh this species, it didn't you know evolve alongside with uh it is uniquely vulnerable and the phylloxera louse which spreads through uh the ages of English gardeners to the vineyards of Europe um you know it is uh finding a species that has no natural resistance, it runs amok um and it devastates the vineyards of uh France um and then Spain um and uh they all have to be replanted and it takes the better part of a generation to realize um that. The only way around this is taking root stock from America, um, and planting it in Europe, and then grafting, uh, the original European vine Vitis vinifera onto this American root stock.

So I don't think people fully understand that throughout Europe, throughout most of the world, um, the European vine Vitis vinifera is grafted onto American root stock. So in true American fashion we were both the blight and the savior, uh, savior. It reminds me of the vines that are the Homer Simpson quote, 'alcohol: the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.' Um, America was the cause of and solution to, uh, the problem of phylloxera, um. The vineyards of Europe, Chile being isolated by the Atacama, by the South Atlantic, you know, Antarctic Ocean, and the Andes has never had an outbreak of phylloxera, so you have all this old vine self-rooted material, this kind of vines that are in the vines that are in the vines that are in Chile, um, you know, of these older vines that don't exist anywhere else in the world.

Uh, for the sake of uh these, um, you know vines like País that were planted in the 19th century, they're still kicking it today. So, you have people making wine from vines that look like this, um, this is not the tidy, you know, row of popular imagination. These are gobelet-trained wild vines, um, they exist, um, and are propagated, um, you know, on their own, standing on their own. They look gnarly; they get thicker as they grow; they look like old olive trees. Um, each one to the next has its own, you know, special uh personality. And uh, this is the the uh French, um, and that claims uh, the pepino, that he's a negotiant of the red that we're drinking uh today, and this is one of the vines he works with, which is hundreds of years old.

And these vines are older than the Chilean nation itself; so Chile didn't gain its independence from Spain until the early 19th century. These vineyards undoubtedly older um than uh the modern chilean nation itself which is amazing uh to think of them as repositories of this history um and you know that begs the question you know um you know it's like uh what's so good about peace love and understanding you know what's so good about old vines um in the first place um it should be said um that you know uh vines as they age they get less productive um my favorite analogy you know being that you know uh people uh as they age unless they're um like me uh they speak less but they choose their words uh more wisely i get to learn that lesson but um you know many um of our village elders uh do so um and grapevines are the same way uh when they're younger they're overproductive um they tend to um uh you know especially um in the life cycle of uh producing embryonic grapes they get you know their eyes are bigger than their stomach um during fruit set they produce more grape clusters than they can reliably ripen um but as uh a vines age they become more self-regulating um and you know they are you know better able to fully ripen the grapes that you know that are uh that are uh that are you know they ultimately are um you know kind of developing embryonically and then furthermore um as grapes um you know develop on older vines they're able to maintain acid um as they fully ripen and you get thicker skins and smaller individual grape clusters um that produce a much more interesting uh product um and you know uh we're reaching the kind of outermost limit um for vines in the world um there's this uh hugely celebrated slovenian um uh vine in particular um that's said to be over um 500 years old still um bringing wine into the world this day it reminds me of uh these uh bristlecone pine trees in nevada um that had been the subject of a lot of research and we're the subject of this really fascinating research and we're going to talk about fascinating new york Article that I'll share with you, um, you know tomorrow. But, uh, those trees are over 5,000 years old, um, uh, and, um, you know, those trees are even, uh, better suited to develop in in a difficult environment than grapevines. Grapevines thrive in struggle, you know; they're not a plant that needs a ton of nutrients; they do better in poor soils, um, uh, they're survivors in a really fabulous way, and, and, you know, these vines I think you get a sense of that, you know; looking at those, they're survivors.

You can't beat them back in a lot of these older vineyards; they've been plowed over a million times and re-emerge, um, and, and, I love that; I think. There's something hugely poetic about that. We have, um, Blanco de Tinto here and, um, a more traditional Pipeno. Um, so the Blanco de Tinto is a white wine from red grapes, 150-year-old vines here, from the Garage Wine Company, which is a collaboration between, uh, local vigneron's and a Canadian bloke. And the Pipeno, um, is a collaboration between an Ernesto Soto, a hugely gifted, um, vigneron in, um, this corner of the Mendoza Valley, um, and he is one of the few vigneron's that, um, the gentleman you saw in that photo; his story really is fascinating.

He came from Burgundy to learn Spanish, and Chile fell in love with the old vines, went Back to Burgundy to learn winemaking, studied under such natural winemaking luminaries as Marcel and; for him, these cooler corners of Chile in the Mwale in Bio-Bio in Itaza they remind him of um, and they make very Beaujolais-like wines for the sake of this Pipeco, um, the word itself comes from uh, the Spanish Pipa, um, which is you know, the, um, word for uh traditional vessel, that you know, these wines would be fermented and then subsequently aged in this is a picture of a, uh, lagar; these are open-top, uh, tanks; traditionally they would have been from a type

of a wood called Raleigh, um, which is an evergreen Beechwood, just Locally derived, I know a lot of you have questions about, you know, are there other vessels that people are using made from other types of trees called oak, you know, obviously they didn't have access originally to uh French oak in Chile so traditionally Raleigh um was the um uh wood of choice um and it was the aging vessel of choice for the Gonzalez one um that you enjoyed earlier um and then um and then um and then um and then um and then um um for the sake of these Algarves, you know, many of them would be made uh from that uh as well um uh uh typically you would you know the stem um on uh those bamboo mats we showed earlier and then uh.

Throw it into a vessel like this and the wine would ferment, uh, you know very fast, um, it's kind of, uh, chaotic winemaking style, it's very different than the natural winemaking methodology you find in a place like Beaujolais where cold carbonic is, you know, kind of, um, the uh uh preferred regime for the lispers of the world, um, that's something that Lloyd and his winemakers have kind of, uh, come to terms with, um, they use some carbonic maceration with these wines, uh, but they use some open top, um, for the sake of of this one, um, you know, let's you know cut to brass tacks for the sake of these wines, I think one thing that's fun.

To taste between, uh, for the sake of these two, uh, we have a blanco de tinto press right off the skins, um, the color, um, in red grapes comes from the skins; this is pressed right off and whole cluster and made in stainless steel, um, so it doesn't soak up any of that color. And then this is made in a more traditional manner on the skins, both very old vines, you know, from the white version of the red grape to the more traditional red, you know. Can you taste the continuity? I think that's a really fascinating, uh, question. And then, you know, for the sake of the Pipeño, what do you think of this peasant's wine?

This is campesinos' wine, you know; this is campesinos wine you know this is a wine that you know rarely historically you know came out of a bottle this is a wine that you know um you know you're gonna lay down in a cellar this is what pipeño looks like in chile you know you serve it in a used coke bottle you know and you celebrate it as something you know to drink with local food it is not a fetishized wine it is part of the local drinking culture in a wonderfully matter-of-fact you know kind of way um and it's the original natural wine it's not this like like you know i gotta be on the right wine list in the parisian or you know kind of bushwick natural wine bar this is like um you know mother's milk You know, this is what we drink and you know part of the only reason that you know it shows up on um, you know the Bushwick you know wine list is through the efforts of um these foreign interlopers, um you know like like who come to Chile and you know see the specialness of it sometimes it takes an outsider to see the specialness of um, you know an insider culture and I think you know uh some of that is what is happening today um in Chile uh for the sake of uh this old vine stock so um uh Zoe uh for the sake of the commenters um you know I'm curious um are you guys tasting these wines side by side?

I think you know the uh drinking through the centuries. Was our most uh widely purchased two-pack, which I was really excited about because you know it was kind of my favorite. And I think you know to tell the story of Chilean wine today, you really have to say that this is the wine of the country; it is, you know, emerging as you know a special localized product. Um, it is this time capsule to um, this grape that originally uh, constituted the bulk of wines in Chile. Um, you know, and it is not the wine that most people think of; it is not the country Torta that you know is um you know widely available on supermarket shelves. But for me, this is the soul of Chilean wine.

What do you all think of it, Zoe? Um, what are the people, uh, thinking of these wines from one to the next? Um, I just asked everyone in the chat to review their tasting notes since I just started my work day so I am abstaining from wine at the moment but I'll catch up with you guys in like eight hours. A lot of questions about or a lot of comments on the Semillon um previous wines. Heidi says just that it's not a complicated one, very gluey, very juicy. Yeah, I would, I would concur, but it's not supposed to be again, you know. It doesn't exist, um, you know, to lay down uh for  decades on then this is you know a wine that you know at its heart um you know brings joy and you know that's what it's about and you know, to the extent that it has done that, you know it has you know accomplished uh its purpose um in life um to the extent that it's you know brought uh that joy to drink today cultures um you know for those of you playing along at home um access to the safe is an important part of being in the tailcoat office so I was trying to manage that um in the context of teaching uh the wine school that you know and love  I don't think that you know we should treat this maybe as something that you do lay down, I'd be curious to see how it drinks you know decades since you know it has a little bit of Petience to it, you know it has a little bit of that like pin prickly um on the palate, you know, but you know not all wines you know are about um you know uh impressing clients uh you know at a steakhouse, you know. This whole family of Glue, Goya long you know, bondu plus here, wines that are about you know just sensual pleasure um that are about you know this kind of honest you know kind of peasant culture of making something that is for immediate consumption and that's where Pepeño fits um you know for me and and that is worth.

We're celebrating but you know what I think is really amazing about it is it's not you know a one. -Trick pony, I think it is a kind of dynamic wine and it has this like brambly herbaceousness um and uh Lloyd is really trying to you know uncover the underpinnings of pepeño from one vineyard to the next in this region and the soils are very heterodox um you have some volcanic soils you have some heavier you know iron rich red clay you have some more more kind of like alluvial soils and you know he's wanting to you know find out you know for the sake of these old years older vineyards you know how do the wines express differently uh from from one vineyard to the next um does anyone have a comment about you know continuity between the right And, uh, the red offerings though, uh, not really at this moment.

Um, there's just some notes about the Pepeño has like a really candied-like nose, yeah, some are saying that like there is a bit of dust mustiness as well. Um, and then if you could actually explain if wines are musty and they have that like dank uh note to it where that comes from and the vinification of the vineyards and the vineyards process, yeah, for me um this is a wine that just needs a few seconds to you know have some of that mustiness blow off um you know I opened this um you know uh about 30 minutes before class and when I first tasted it um you know just to make sure that It was showing the way it should be, you know.

It does have a little bit of like a pin prick of sulfur and you know dank cellar smell, but I find that blows off a little bit, um, or quite a bit, or has blown off now, um, and we're getting into this much more interesting process so I'm going to give you a little bit of an overview of the wine that we're going to be tasting, and then I'm going to give you a little bit of an overview of the wine that we're going to be tasting, and then I'm going to... You know, fresh wild strawberry, raspberry, um, you know kind of uh fruit leathery uh place, and there's there's a chewiness uh to this wine on the palate. That I really love, I think you know the texture of this wine.

It's really fascinating, and then you know for me, for the sake of the white, um, I think what is cool is um, you know, there's something herbal about it, um, there's something like fleshy and oily about Blanc de Noir, um, uh, you know, a wine from a white grape, um, that you know makes it, you know, recognizable, um, you know, uh, strangely, um, you know, kind of, um, fluid, um, for the sake of of these wines, even though you know they couldn't be, um, you know, more different, uh, seemingly, um, in the glass, and, um, you know, albeit you know made very differently, you know, this is stainless, um, very. Clean whole cluster pressed, you know this is um, you know much more traditional vinification, you know much more um, you know oxidative um environment but um, you know that you know herbal leaf that savoriness I think is really important to me and I think it's really important to me and I think it's you know really um, uh, is something that you know the two wines share uh from from one to the next absolutely and then um a little bit of that like sanguine bloody irony you know yeah yeah and I think that's something that you know um, you'll find you know for the sake of um, Pepeño um, uh, in general I think that's a characteristic. Of país um, in general, there are a lot of people working with país um, and I think that's a characteristic of país um, in general, um, uh, both, um, in Chile and elsewhere, um, as a rosé grape, and I think it's really fitting there because it has that bright, saline, olive brine kind of kick to it, um, I think it works, you know, really beautifully, um, in that application, um, so we're going to flash forward a bit here, um, for the sake of the, you know, kind of uh French influence, um, in the, um, kind of uh Chilean, uh, wine sphere, and um, the final two wines are kind of bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, uh, boulder reds, and you know, for um, you. Know me what's so fascinating about them is, um, that they are a snapshot into the history of Bordeaux, but you know through this uh lens of South American wine history, so um uh Chile derived most of its wealth in the modern era beginning in the 19th century from uh its mineral deposits saltpeter um and other minerals um uh you know were abundant in uh Chile and you know it is a nation of miners through to the modern era you know um through to um you know the you know celebrated um uh you know 33 miners um you know that were you know rescued um in in Chile but you know mining is you know a huge part of um you know the Chilean economy and you know um uh the chilean um you know kind of uh culture um and you know mining was dominated and tends to be dominated where it takes place into the modern era by a handful of ruling families by oligarchies um and uh chilean history is a a really um a story of um you know these ruling oligarchs and their descendants um and beginning in the mid 19th century um these you know newly enriched families um they looked to uh the continent um you know for um you know this um kind of um these lessons about you know how to comport themselves you know europe was the benchmark for the sake of culture um you know for the sake of fashion and For the sake of wine making and France, in particular, in the 19th century was a benchmark. So these ruling families, you know, um, they traveled to France, um, you know, to soak up this culture, um, and bring it back home, and erect it, um, for the sake of, you know, uh, assorted, you know, status symbol, you know, kind of making, um, and, you know, they bring back with them an appreciation of French wine, and they want to bring back, um, the grapes of Bordeaux, which at the time, you know, was the, um, most heralded, um, region in the world.

Now, um, fascinatingly enough, the Bordeaux of the 19th century that they were celebrating is very different than The Bordeaux that we know today, um, there are a couple grapes that proliferated in Bordeaux at that time much more than they currently do, um, Malbec was one of them and we studied Malbec in the context of France and Europe and we're going to talk about that in a little bit but I'm going to talk about that in a little bit but I'm going to talk about that in a little bit but I'm going to. Malbec shares a parent with Merlot, um, but we're not going to dive down that rabbit hole. Malbec is one of the allowable grapes, um, in Bordeaux, um, in addition to, uh, the six major ones being, um, Cabernet Franc which is, uh, one of the parents.

Of both Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon, but also Carmenier which most people associate with Chilean wine. Um, Malbec shares a different parent, um, with um, Merlot and then Petit Bordeaux uh, the final one among the mix. Carmenier and Petit Bordeaux in particular uh don't readily ripen uh in Bordeaux um, you know until um global warming uh has entered the fray but Carmenier was a much more important uh part of that blend until phylloxera hit those vineyards so uh because uh these you know ruling families uh brought French experts back with them and because all these French experts bred uh fled to after the onset of phylloxera. Um, you know you have this snapshot of Bordeaux pre-phylloxera that's hugely fascinating, um, and you have all this old vine material that survived to the modern era uh, to the to the modern day, um, in Chile that didn't um, you know uh, necessarily survive in Bordeaux proper time passed it by in Bordeaux proper, time passed malbec by, um, after the 1950s, after a catastrophic frost, um, for the sake of Chile, um, but you know it nonetheless survives, um, in uh, South America and for the sake of Carmenier, um, you know it has become the signature grape of Chile, in a way that Malbec has become the signature grape of Argentina, in a way that Tannat Has become the signature grape of Uruguay, um, and uh, that's very much a modern phenomenon, uh, so Carmenier wasn't readily identified in the vineyards of Chile until a French ampelographer and polygraphy is the study of, um, these different subtypes of this Vinifera.

I know it sounds, uh, like, uh, hugely, uh, fascinating, uh, way to, uh, earn a living and to, um, you know, uh, devote a an academic career but, you know, for those of us in the field, um, it is illuminating and, uh, Merlot and Carmenier are really, uh, difficult to distinguish in the vineyard, um, although, uh, Carmenier tends to ripen, uh, weeks later uh than Merlot, um, and, uh, a French apologist. Made his way to Chile uh in the 90s, in 1994 he said, 'You know, this um you know Merlot uh you know Millennial air quotes uh it looks a lot more like uh Carmenier to me, um and uh he identified it as such, um and uh the Chilenos discovered that much of what they thought was Merlot uh and to some extent Cabrock was actually Carmenier here, um and they leaned into that and they said, 'You know, look you know we could make another Cab Franc, Cab Merlot or you know we could take this old vine Carmenier and create another Vignacole Carmenier and we could claim it as our own, as this distinctive Chilean product.' And that's largely what they've done there to this day. And I think that's super cool. So this particular study in wine is devoted to these Bordeaux refugees. In one instance, Malbec, which we studied before, and in one instance, Carmeniere. And we're gonna continue to work our way backwards. I should have brought a spittoon, but I didn't.

So I'm gonna have to down the Pais Blanco that I was drinking for the sake of making a meaningful inference about the Carmeniere. But I love the notion that we are looking at this time capsule in South America for the sake of these wines as they once were in Bordeaux. And I think there's something poetic about going back to the time capsule and looking at the future for the sake of these wines. And for the sake of the younger artisanal producers, embracing older vines for the sake of pushing their way into this industry that is dominated by a handful of larger brands. So let's make sure that when at all possible, people are submitting their tasting notes on these wines and throwing them out there for the sake of the Malbec.

And for the sake of the Carmeniere. The Malbec comes from the Bío Bío Valley. It's fun to say Bío Bío, Bío Bío is very much an emerging region in Chile. But because it is close to the original kind of center of kind of Spanish trading, Concepción, it has a lot of old vine material. I spoke to this cooling influence of the Humboldt current, earlier, and I spoke to the way in which the Central Valley here is protected from that cooling influence by a coastal range. That cooling influence does not exist in Itata and in Bío Bío, and in Mayeco, further to the south. So they are exposed both to the maritime influence for the sake of rain, and both to that cooling influence for the sake of these currents.

And so on the one instance, it is much easier to make wine without irrigation there. Irrigation happens on vineyards in Chile, almost uniformly, in an industrial sense, in the Central Valley. But it's not as necessary in Bío Bío and in Itata. The Malbec here comes from 70 to 200 year old vines. That's stupidly old. You know, that's stupidly old. You know, there is no regulation on wine labels of de-vín, or vina dequia, or however you want to call it. How do you want to, old vines, how do you want to postulate it? You know, in places like California, you know, what is old would be like, you know, 30 years. So, you know, in vine terms, I'm old as fuck, you know, as a 38 year old.

I am old vine material in California, but, you know, thankfully, I'm not there yet in Chile. In Chile, you know, I could live multiple lifetimes and not be there yet, which is super cool. What I dig. What I dig about this one is that it's much less of that Mendoza Malbec. You can see Santiago and Mendoza as the crow flies less than 100 miles from each other. You have to pass over the tallest mountain in the Americas to get there, you know, but hugely proximate. But the style of wine could not be more different for the sake of this Malbec. It is much more like the Malbecs of Cajor. It is much more savory. It is much more rambly. It tastes like. It tastes like teriyaki.

One of the tasting notes from the winery itself, name dropped, like the classic hibachi steak. And I am going to live out my dream at some point of going to Benihana and asking for corkage and drinking this Malbec and getting my birthday picture, as you should always, whether it's your birthday or not, when you go to Benihana, you should always get the birthday picture. But I think this would be an amazing Benihana steak. Thank you. It really is fantastic. There's the questic grape wine, because it tastes like the teriyaki steak in the best possible way. It brings to mind the flaming onion tower. It's like savory and beguiling and gnarly. And then I think, you know, again, talking about these old vine wines, you know, it's like, you know, well-aged beef.

You know, it's not fresh. Fresh, um, you know it's not tender, it's gnarly, you know it's chewy, um, you know it's a wine maybe that you know you don't, um, gravitate to as a newly minted wine drinker, but it's the thing that you come to as you get older, you know it's the thing that reveals itself more slowly, it's the thing that you know is, is, is seductive, um, you know and that draws you in, um, it's the thing that you know you want to, you know kind of pursue, um, you know for further inquiry, um, over time and and you know for me I think this Malbec uh beautifully embodies that. The fermentation takes place in Anfora, tinaha, in as much as there's a tradition, uh, using, um, you know that Roioli, um, you know that Beechwood, there is also a tradition of using clay to some extent for some Pienos, um, and for wines like this, um, as well.

This comes from three uh winemaking friends in Chile, um, and you know there's something just like really, you know fabulous and bloody about this wine that I really dig, I'm in the Carmen here, um, it comes from Maipo, so again I talked about, you know, um, the bizarro history, um, you know that I'm giving you all, um, for the sake of my looking. Glass um through the world of fine wine, this is from the Maipo Valley, not to be confused with the Mwale Valley, both the Maipo and the Mwale are subzones of the Central Valley. Maipo is just south of Santiago, adjacent to Santiago when the robber barons of Chile, like the Vanderbilts and Carnegies of Chile established their land estate, like their kind of like wine estates which they did very early um in Chile um they did so in the Maipo Valley um this comes from Alto de Maipo so like further up closer to uh the Andes um and it comes from you know people with money, husband and wife team um but working more in a natural wine milieu. Um, so there's no new oak on this um, it doesn't need it; it's preposterously fleshy, um, and fruity, and fun. Um, and you know just to name-drop the Sabi B lesson, it's a slutty red wine um; Carmen here is a give-it-up-on-the-first-date kind of red wine um. You know, sometimes uh, it leans into an herbaceousness that is a little too much um; it's like adding too much of the wrong spice to a dish.

It's like you know that time you wanted to add cloves to your... you know... fruitcake or... um... what? Gingerbread and you just like overdid it on cloves, and you know the... the gingered bread just became this like you know kick in the face of clothes um. You know, Carmen here is a bit like that, but you know clothes done well, you know they're super fun. Um, and you know for me, like, um, you know Carmen here to benevolent ends has this really super fun herbaceousness that distinguishes it from the other ones that I've had in my life, so I think one of the reasons there is that has to do with that is you know when you go get in a wine like today we will go take a look at the compare Escape and day to see from you know word today Bordeaux Ay wants um and um you know gives it interests um and you know makes it like you know preposterous um you know this is it's it's kind of like it makes me laugh, this. wine um it's not Chablis you know it's not Merlot um you know it's not this ubiquitous big fucking red it has something else to say it's gonna you know you know plead its case you know it’s not gonna go you know you know it’s not gonna go quietly into into that good night you know to quote Dylan Thomas you know it is raging against the dying of the light so to speak I’ve spoken up Zoe It looks like people in the chat are you know kind of contributing with you know fun and fascinating things to say What do you have for me I just want you to take a look at another screen, and you can understand what we were doing. I feel like we all got taught. There's a caterpillar that's playing on their laptop. We've all been very loud and distracted. Oh, wow, wow, that's amazing.

I can't, there's, so it should be said that, you know, kind of conducting these lessons is, is like, you know, patting your head and rubbing your belly at one time, and, and so it is, it is next to impossible for me to maintain, you know, my own, kind of like, internal thread, and, you know, maintain the chat simultaneously, which is why Zoe is invaluable. But I have not noticed as much, but I do value the alternative, like the alternate history. It's kind of like the, the Howard Zinn people's history of wine class. That is, the chat scram chip. So, thank you all for, for bringing the caterpillar into the mix for the sake of that. What else do you have, Zoe? It's a great segue.

They actually wanted to know how the Andes affect viticulture and terroir, since we spoke a lot about the oceanic influence earlier. Yeah, so the Andes have a cooling influence, and the Andes are, you know, really vital for the sake of, you know, water. So, the bulk of Chile, you know, for commercial production would be too dry, and so the snow melt that works its way down into, into Chile, you know, irrigates the bulk of the commercial vineyards in, in the Central Valley. Irrigation is not a European phenomenon. It predates, you know, the Spanish influence in Chile. The Mapuche cultures in Chile, the other indigenous cultures in Chile, they irrigated. Chile has a very large indigenous population.

A lot of the farmers working in the southern regions, south of Muale and Biobío, those small farmers, many of whom are working with grapes, and who are contracted out by particular producers, some of whom work with the Pequeño producer, that we're featuring, you know, they maintained a significant amount of independence from Spanish dominion wealth. into the 1870s um you know fascinatingly enough um but um you know fast forward um to the modern era um you know the Andes are the like blood um of Chile wine for the sake of water rights um close to the Andes but you also get um this cooling influence of um the air that sinks its way into the valley um along those eastern um you know kind of uh slopes um and uh you know uh the the vineyards um and also you get you know vineyards at elevation they're not as you know kind of preposterously high as they are in Mendoza um but you know they're pushing um as well especially as you go uh to um kind of more um uh you know uh latitudes uh northerly latitudes in southern hemisphere latitudes approaching the equator and so on um and so on um and so on you know they they want to go up um for the sake of making elegant wine um you know so uh the Andes are are hugely significant you know as as a barrier um there but you know they're not the only barrier it's really those it's really that like influence of the two mountain ranges um you know the coastal range um you know to your west and the Andes to your east that you know make um that valley um such an auspicious place for winemaking absolutely um we were wondering If you could also talk a little bit about the straw mat that we saw earlier for crushing grapes and what the yield difference is between um, hand crushing, and uh, machines, um, yeah, so um, the yield on the bamboo mats would be inherently lower um than the yield from um, you know, kind of like a mechanized um, press, um, so a lot of different ways to press grapes, um, you know, traditionally uh, it was done with your feet, um, and then you want to avoid that um, which is not gentle, um, and so um, you know, people when they press grapes in a modern parlance, they're very worried about, you know, these more bitter, astringent flavors that you can get particularly if you grape break the seeds um so the seeds tend to have uh the harshest tannins um in grapes and if you break down the seeds you get you know a very astringent gripping bitter um you know kind of uh flavor profile in your wine and um if you're i love loosely state brand uh hot tea or lots of trees as a note that might feel a little kinda weird you want ten months and somehow Azabat drops our grab so if beforeon even though we get that done for a steep drop with your feet you know uh you're more likely to do that um you know uh the kind of next wave of technology um you know from the roman into the Modern era, well from the Roman era, it would have been you know kind of like a stone press but into modern era, like a basket press, um, but you know, um, that is uh less uh gentle but more gentle maybe than stomping with the feet, um, and it's still practiced in a lot of parts of the old world, um, but much more efficient, um, so uh you get much higher yields uh for the press wine.

Um, most modern wineries employ what is called a pneumatic press as a bladder press, so it's a giant oval that fills with this bladder slowly but surely and it's highly programmable, so you can inflate that bladder um at various levels of pneumatic pressure, um, and the The um barrel spins uh to release the juice um at various intervals uh, so it's highly customizable um, so it's highly customizable um, it's highly customizable um, and it's highly flexible um, and it's highly customizable um, and you can, you know, dictate um how aggressively you want to press um. Most producers will um, you know, most like really conscientious producers will make what's called a cut um, so they will differentiate between more lightly pressed juice and more heavily pressed juice, so uh, what is called your free run juice um, from you know, lightly crushed grapes tends to be more aromatic, tends to be more acidic um.

Than the grape juice you get at the end of the cycle, which tends to be lower at acid and much coarser. And, you know, in a modern, um, quality-conscious winery, as the pneumatic press works its magic, you would taste that juice, um, throughout the press cycle. And you would typically make a cut, so you would say at some point, 'You know, this wine is getting coarse enough that I don't want to use it in my prestige de cuvee.' You know, I don't want to use it my single vineyard wine. You know, I still want to use this press wine for something else. You know, but I don't want to maybe use it for my best wine, um, and that's in the context of a white.

Directly to press wine in the context of red wine, uh, it would be made differently. So, um, in the context of red wine, you would crush the grapes and then you would leave the grape skins in the mix during fermentation, and that cap would float to the top, um, and then at the end of the fermentation cycle, typically at the end of about two weeks two to three weeks, um, you would have a fully fermented wine but you would have grapes that still had um some juice to give. So usually, you would uh siphon off the fully fermented wine and then throw the rest of the grapes into a press and make press wine, and for the sake of red wine, that press wine.

can be really useful because if you have a wine that you want to add more tannic structure to you can throw press wine into the mix um so you know winemakers um you know they're gifted tasters but they're they're very good at you know um you know in a cellar you know taking you know some of this some of that and you know you typically want to um you know have multiple lots to work with um so that you know um you can make intelligent decisions about what a particular cuvee needs at a particular you know moment in time this notion of a you know pure you know set it and forget it single vineyard wine very rare you know it's very rare on the vineyard side in terms of vineyards that are complex enough to produce that very rare in the winemaking side you know that you can you know just you know hit a home run right out of the gate uh for the sake of those wines so um you know uh the that you know a particular straw mat would be uh typically less productive uh than a press just bring it all full circle and to give a um five minute you know answer to a question that probably only required uh you know 15 to 30 seconds um without without further ado so i feel like there are more questions than i have let um but i i want to thank everybody um for being here um uh and thank you To everybody for being there just a!

Thank you, I just want to say thank you um for that uh you know it was a drooling uh talk and I think for everyone who perhaps individuals unable right having been able to into the above uh pan come on, yeah. I i do appreciate you taking this um thank you, you know what a greatendeck. Dr. Shellman at a small scale, rediscovering the history of the craft in their small corner of the world. And for me, that is the lifeblood of our industry. And that being conscientious students of history and working at a smaller, more artisanal, more thoughtful scale is what makes life more interesting. So, thank you all for joining us, as always, alone together. Cheers, with the Pellegrino for you, Zoe. What else do you have for us?

Kind of a political question. I think it might be too early to know. But Chilean President Sebastian has gotten in some press recently because his response to COVID was just so quick and swift. And he actually did a shutdown for 90 days back in March. And if that is going to maybe affect viticulture for this year. Well, I think the question is, if we are going to be able to have something that's vintage in terms of Southern American wine, or if they might be able to take the ground running in that way. So that is a registered trademark, excellent question. So it should be said that Chile, for a variety of reasons, does very well in terms of quality of life measures, in terms of economic advancement measures, vis-a-vis its South American neighbors.

It is a very economically kind of like they're doing well by regional standards. Since the fall of the Pinochet regime, a democratic government has taken hold there very well. And they've been very forward thinking. I think for me, one of the most salient lessons of this moment is that. No industry exists in a vacuum. Things like having a reliable social safety net, things like making sure you respond effectively to public health disasters, it affects every industry in a country in demonstrable ways. The harvest in Chile tends to be wrapping up in March, April, May. It tends to be wrapped up in most regions. Maybe not in some regions. Maybe it's Chata regions that are colder. But I would hazard a guess that the 2020 vintage is pretty unaffected by COVID.

And the kind of labors in wine that require a lot of people working in close proximity, being picking grapes, those labors tend to have been fully kind of wrapped up, especially by the time the coronavirus made its way to the state. And I think this is particularly true for the Southern Hemisphere. Working the cellar is a pretty lonely enterprise, by and large. So I don't think that in Chile it would have been hugely affected. It will have been affected in the Northern Hemisphere more for the sake of vineyard work, but blessedly, vineyard work is outside. This is a total non sequitur, but I've been exchanging texts with a really good friend in the Finger Lakes today. And he talked about how they're doing really well and how we're doing really well.

You know, people want to be, you know, vacating the cities for the sake of, you know, places where they can drink outside and socially distance outside. And so, you know, for those of you that want a brief respite from this crisis, I think that, you know, vineyards are a great place and a responsible place to do that. But, you know, I think, you know, having a responsible public health, you know, kind of regime in place can do nothing but uplift all industries, you know, including the wine industry.

Thank you all. Apologies. Great. What else you got, Joan? I think our final question before we get down to our fun taco party is, you know, I think it's a great question. I think it's a great question. is to talk about what food a lot of Chilean wines pair with, in particular, what cheese you would recommend. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, Chile being proximate to the sea, it really is a region that celebrates seafood. You know, a lot of the traditional, like, classic Chilean dishes are, you know, these, like, farmer kind of, like, seafood stews. And, you know, so I I want to, you know, drink these wines with those. You know, there's a pastoral, you know, kind of culture, there is a, you know, kind of shepherd's culture for the sake of, you know, meat a la parassa, you know, meat on a stick, that you know, sutokas would go with.

Like empanadas are very much a thing in Chile. You know, but you know, I, you know, I find myself, you know, vis-à-vis Chilean cuisine, you know, there's Chilean ceviche, there's Chilean seafood stew. You know, I I want to lean into some of the white wines, the aromatic whites more than anything, you know, for the sake of the reds, I think they're great summery, you know, grill out, you know, kind of wines, you know, Chile has its own equivalent of kind of like the Argentine kind of like gaucho cowboy culture. And, you know, again, this like meat on the grill thing, you know, that's what I want with those wines, you know, even Carmenier, which gets like, you know, super herbal, there's a smokiness to those wines that I think, you know, is super, super fabulous with with things off the grill.

So, you know, the fact that, you know, we're diving south, you know, the fact that we're celebrating the regions that we are, it speaks to, you know, my own flights of fancy, but you know, it speaks to a seasonality, you know, of wine, you know, people, you know, drink seasonally and as much as they eat locally and eat. Seasonally. And, you know, the kinds of things that we feature are the kinds of things that, you know, we hope that people are wanting to drink, at least in so far as we have Northern Hemisphere listeners, I think it would jump pretty well east to west in terms of attracting listeners. I don't know if we have any listeners in the Southern Hemisphere.

And if we do, I apologize for any mistakes I've made for the sake of, you know, you know, presenting your drinking culture. But you know, I think it's a great way to, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, yeah, you know, I think like, like meat on the grill. And again, like, veggie on the grill too. And, and, you know, I, you know, the South American food scene is dominated by, you know, cuts up steak and, and, you know, stuff like that. But, you know, if you're not a meat eater, you know, mushroom, you know, throw a shit ton of smoke at eggplant, you know, I think, you know, people get wedded to this idea that meat's the only thing I can go through I'd run.

But like, if you throw enough smoke at things like eggplant, they can be more meaty than meat in a really fabulous way, um, even if you so if you don't have a grill, you know, just throw eggplant under the broiler for long enough, you know, uh, throw anything under the broiler; it's just a grill upside down, um, and that char uh will be really fabulous. And I think, like, the pepino in particular, um, you know, that char, but the freshness, the salinity of that wine will lend it to a lot of, you know, lighter dishes, um, you know, than you typically consider drinking red wine with, um, and that's the beauty of that wine; like, you know, again it's like, you know, wine out of a used plastic Coke bottle, you know, it is not wine to be fetishized, it is wine to be, you know, part of uh the table and and consumed and celebrated as such.

So great, um, thank you Zoe, I will let you all uh get down to it, um, I'm thrilled to have as many people as we do um in the chat, um, after an hour and a half of me uh doing whatever it is that I Do on this end of things, um, you guys fucking rock, um, you know this is a wonderfully supported community, and in as much as I hope that we have, um, you know been a beacon of, um, you know diversion, hope, um, uh what all throughout this, you all have been, uh, the same to us, um, cheers to you Zoe, um, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are fierce and we love you, uh, cheers to everyone, uh, at home, uh, we are drinking, as always, alone together, thank you so much, cheers, happy belated to Alan and Heather too.