Viño Galego: Spring in Green Spain

Class transcript:

Happy holiday weekend to you all. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, welcome one and all. It is four o'clock on Sunday, and that means Tailup Coat Wine School is in the mix with you all, hoping to brighten everyone's day here. I'm admitting you all for the sake of the waiting room. Welcome one and all. Yes, I am wearing a t-shirt with my face on it. You know, those of you who are looking for signs of the apocalypse, look no further. I'll have a word of explanation very shortly. Once again, happy Memorial Day to you all. Special welcome to any veterans in the mix. There is a long and proud history of wine drinking. The ranking in the service ranks we're celebrating, and we thank you all for your service.

If you have any veterans in your family today, of all days, thank them for their service. For the sake of provisioning, all sorts of options this week. We are celebrating the kind of sheer, astounding diversity, the wealth of native grapes that come to us from Green, Spain, the northwesterly most corner of the Iberian Peninsula. And welcome. It's a very special place for wine. We have a couple different options, or we had a couple different options, for the sake of two wine packs through our store, representing different native grapes, both white and red, and we're going to get to both. Really going to zero in on, focus in on the individual bottles, and try to tell some of the stories of the people that are producing these wines, because at the end of the day, wine doesn't make itself.

It is much about the people who are putting this very special elevation in the bottle, as it is about the juice itself, singularly. I love about Galician wines that they defy the conventional image of Spanish wine. I think to the extent that people think of Spain, they think of these dense, brooding, muscular red wines, and Galicia does not give you that. It gives you something more summery. Something fresher. Something more fun. It is historically, geographically, a bit of an anomaly when it comes to, you know, Spanish culture, and certainly Spanish viticulture. And that is something that I look forward to celebrating for the sake of today's class. Without further ado, welcome again to you all. Sarah Thompson is with me, as always. She actually has a couple different wines. I don't know.

I was hoping to wear a T-shirt with Sarah's face on it, but circumstances did not align. At any rate, it is a pleasure to have you all with us. Thank you to those of you who are provisioning through our online store. I'm coming at you from our Revelers Hour studio. A shout out to all of you who took a chance at the tail end of the week and let us choose your Galician wines for you. I promise to really focus, again, on the bottles themselves. On the wines themselves for the sake of today's class. And use that as a driver for our narrative over the course of the hour to come. Once again, happy Memorial Day to you all. I hope you are outdoors and grilling and celebrating those among us who served our country.

Without further ado, I have all sorts of announcements to kick off this lesson. Please bear with me. First and foremost, happy birthday to one Zoe Nystrom. She is listening. Muted in the dining room. Remotely. She runs the roost at Revelers Hour for the sake of our beverage program. We are hugely lucky to have her. Happy birthday to you, Zoe. Happy birthday, belatedly, to my mom. That was yesterday. Happy birthday to all our May birthdays. I have quite a few in my life. It is a special month, broadly. More announcements to come here. First and foremost, I want to say that the kind of response that you all have given us, I think, given me, given us for the sake of this class has been inspiring.

Your level of interaction, you know, the degree to which you invest in this each week and just ask amazing questions and, you know, have made this a part of your lives is truly humbling. For those of you just tuning in, yes, I am wearing a T-shirt with my face on it. You have Christian Conner to thank for that. Here's to you, Christian Conner, for making that happen. I am definitely the guy that is wearing the T-shirt of the band to the concert. Don't be that guy. I think future viewers will cite this as the moment when my show started to come off the rails. When he started wearing T-shirts with his face on them, guys, that's really when he jumped the shark. That is the Raymond Simone on the carpet.

That is the Cosby Show moment for Tail Up Goat Wine School. Thank you, Christian. You've been an amazing champion. We love you, buddy. Susannah Young, you baked an amazing apricot chocolate ganache tart, which I courageously and lustily ate at home without sharing with the staff. She did this with the Georgian orange wine from our class. So she did me one better on Sutter Home. And found an innovative use for Georgian orange wine in an apricot ganache tart, which was hugely delicious. And with her permission, hope to share the recipe with you all. It was amazing. My wife and I enjoyed that last night, finishing up a movie. And then lastly, Lisa Marie Romano. Just a side note, I have the wine you were looking for, the Carte Blanche.

I managed to track one down. But she is hosting an after show. So Andy Cohen, fuck you, buddy. I've got an after show. I have a fucking after show, man. Very exciting. Bravo. Eat your heart out, baby. We have like a program suite here at the Tail of Goat Wine School. Thank you all. This class is, you know, all the more special because of what you all have invested in it. Without further ado, let us move on to Galician wine. I should say, Sarah, you were supposed to break in here. But for those of you that want more engagement, that want to drink more wine with us, I'm proud to announce a new regular Thursday feature, flying blind, flying blind, with yours truly, with Sarah Thompson and with Zoe, whose birthday it is.

Sarah and Zoe have picked out two wines for everyone to blind taste that you can purchase through Revelers Hour. We will have them available to purchase just this week through Tail of Goat because Revelers won't be open Wednesday and Thursday. But if you want to tune in, I have no idea what these wines are. You can find out, you know, how good I am at my job, whether I'm totally full of shit when I say that I can, you know, identify these things, you know, totally in the dark. And when I talk about typicity when it comes to wine, you know, you can get a better sense of whether I actually know what I'm talking about. And we'll talk about what it is to blind taste the wine.

It is a fun way to fall ever deeper down. This rabbit hole brings us to today's rabbit hole, which is Galicia. As always, a bit of verse for you all. The Galicians have their own language, which I think a lot of people don't realize, and a long tradition of amazing poetry. This is from one of their foremost modern poets, Rosalia de Castro. It is called in Spanish El Tiempo Pasa. She wrote both in the native Gallego dialect and in Castilian Spanish. She says, Hour after hour, day after day, Between the ceaseless vigilance of earth and sky, Life, the torrent that hurls its spray, Life passes by. Give back the flower its fragrant scent, When it is dry, From the waves that kiss the seashore, And one by one caress it as they die.

Go, gather all the murmurs that are spent, And on bronze plates their harmonies inscribe, Years that have passed, Laughters and tears, black torments of despair, Sweet lies, alas, Where have they left their memories? Alas, my soul, oh where? Bit of verse, a little more bittersweet than, you know, we want to share here. But it reminds me of one of my favorite Sunday poems, that is Sunday Warning, arguably the most famous poem about Sundays, from the inestimable Wallace Stevens. Wallace said in that poem, Death is the mother of all beauty, and there's a lot of truth to that. Galicia is a fascinating region. It has a bit of a sad history for the sake of, you know, oppression from Franco, who ironically was born in Galicia, but suppressed the local culture and language and just mass exodus of farmers because they couldn't find work there.

Yet out of that pain, which is writ on the land and on its people comes this abundance of culture. This abundance of culture. This abundance of joy, which we are going to celebrate for the sake of wine today. And, you know, that duality, I think, is worth celebrating, especially in a moment like this. So let's start with Spain without further ado. I was a Latin American history major. And, you know, to the extent that you explore the history of the colonies or former colonies, you have to explore the history of another country. And Spain is a confederation of former kingdoms. And autonomous republics. I don't think people commonly realize that about Spain. This is a delightfully colorful map. Bonus points to whoever put it together. They really, you know, explored this space.

At any rate, the purple areas here are essentially countries unto themselves. Most famously, País Vasco. Also, Catalonia, which has held many a recent referendum on the subject, but less well-known, Galicia. You have to imagine here that geographically, you're essentially in the middle of a continent. You're actually separated from Spain. So there are a range of mountains that run north and south and kind of, you know, southwest and northeast that separate Castile from Asturias and Galicia. And Galicia historically has more in common, essentially, with Portugal to the south than it does the rest of Spain. Funny thing about Galicia, culturally at least. There's a huge Celtic influence. This is one of my favorite contemporary Galician album titles. They have fucking bagpipes in Galicia. Who knew? You go, Cristina Pato.

You make all the traditional Galician music. So there's a huge Galician, there's a huge Celtic influence there. Going map happy today. But the Celts, they ran the roost fourth century. Before Common Era. You can get a sense of the furthest extent of their empire. It wasn't much of an empire for very long. But their most famous readouts, obviously Ireland, Wales, the Highlands. Everybody knows about that. But there's that quirky little corner of Brittany and Spain that also bears a huge Celtic influence. And linguistically, Gallego and Portuguese, which developed in close consort, both have a strong impression. Both have a strong influence from Celtic languages. And are kind of very closely related to modern forms of Gaelic in their own right. Geographically, Galicia is green Spain.

It is both wetter and significantly cooler than the rest of the Iberian Peninsula. It is the land of 2,000 rivers, if you will. It is pocketed by these deep canyons. It is an absurdly beautiful place. But the soils are very poor. It can get in places, you know, 40 to 50 inches of rain a year. To put that in perspective, last year in the Washington area, we got somewhere in the realm of 60 to 70 inches of rain. So maybe not quite as wet as the kind of most historically wet year on record for us. But certainly not as dry as most wine regions are. That means they can grow a lot of grapes. But it can be difficult to make great wine in Galicia.

What they have going for them is, again, this topography. These very steep river valleys, which have to be terraced. The Romans were really the first to introduce winemaking to the region. The Celts drank wine very nicely done. Mom or dad there. For Sarah Thompson. The Celts were the first to introduce wine drinking. But they didn't make much wine themselves. The Romans were the first to introduce winemaking on any scale. And they dug out terraces into the Galician countryside. And that kind of like terraced viticulture is still a hallmark of the region today. These are terraces in a subregion of Galicia called Ribera Sacra. Get a sense on this picture, A, it is, again, you know, cartoonishly beautiful. But you can see this ladder here. That is essentially going straight down.

The ladder enables them to climb this vertiginous slope and pluck grapes at harvest. Without it, they couldn't easily ascend the slope to pick the grapes when the time comes. And one of my favorite expressions about me. Making wine in Galicia is this notion of viticultura eroica. So heroic viticulture. The lengths that people go through in terms of cutting these terraces out of these steep granite and slate hillsides to make these profoundly delicious and special wines. Flash forward from the initial Roman colonization through to the Middle Ages. And Galicia remained an important winemaking region. But it was mostly through the aegis of the church. And Galicia is very significant for the sake of church history because of one Saint Iago or Saint James, if you will. So there are various stories.

But Saint James, one of the earliest of Jesus' disciples, was said to have somehow, or at least his remains, said to have somehow made their way from Jerusalem. To the westernmost corner of Spain in Santiago de Compostela. And the relevant local clerics erected a cathedral in this westernmost area of the Iberian Peninsula. And it became a hugely important pilgrimage destination for believers throughout the Middle Ages. You could either go to Rome, you could go to Jerusalem, or you could go to Santiago de Compostela. And famously today, all sorts of tourists will walk the Camino to trace the steps of those medieval pilgrims. Once upon a time, you know, they were looking for indulgences. Nowadays, they're looking for, you know, pictures and memories and, you know, delicious octopus and potato stews.

You know, worth pursuing in and of their own right. But for the sake of winemaking, this is significant because you can imagine, you know, all sorts of monks, religious officials coming from France. And bringing with them, you know, in lieu maybe of money for a stay at an inn, clippings of vines. So you see all sorts of varietals from throughout Europe that were brought to Galicia from other kind of parts of the continent. Both from the south and largely from the east as well. Flash forward from there into the modern era. Galicia was honestly more of a wine lake. So it was more of a source of bulk wine than it has been prestige wines. There are a few exceptions. There's a small sub-region called Ribero, which makes a dried grape wine called Potada.

From a grape that many of you are enjoying called Tresador, which Sarah has to her far left there. You know, that enjoyed a brief vogue in the 17th century. But largely speaking, you're talking bulk wine. And the traditional form of viticulture in Galicia involves these tiny family estates, pavos or mini fundios. And traditionally, the way of training the vine would be on these high pergolas. And that would keep the grapes themselves in a very wet region, protected from the moisture that would collect near the floor of the vineyard. But it would also allow you to maximize the use of your acreage on a small family farm. So if you had your vines trained to pergolas, which are very efficient and tend to be, for the sake of many grapes, very productive, you could also plant potatoes to go with your octopus or any number of other crops.

Pimienta de perron, other locally famous vegetables, you could work with as well. It is not a region of proud, landed gentry. There are no castles in Galicia. It is small holdings. And, you know, to the extent that it's a small village, it's not a large village. And to the extent that you have a new generation of winemakers resurrecting these smaller plots, they are doing so by buying up abandal natos. So, you know, in the 19th into the 20th century, if you could, this is a region you got out of. There was no possibility of earning a living there easily. And, you know, if you were upwardly mobile, if you wanted to make something of yourself and learn something, you went to the city. You didn't stay on your tiny farm.

You stayed on your ancestral estate and make wine. But a wonderful thing has happened, especially since Spain joined the European Union. And that is that you have a new generation of winemakers that are rediscovering all the amazing native grapes that Galicia has to offer. And they are rediscovering the amazing winemaking traditions that have always existed there but had fallen on hard times. So, without further ado, let's taste some wine. We are going to start with the first Alborinho that we were offering online. And, you know, consistent with my promise to focus on, you know, stories and people. We are going to start with La Gave Pintos. Now, this is not the wine I have. I have Del Ferrero. But we're going to start with, yes, thank you. Thank you very much, Sarah Thompson.

Beautifully, beautifully done there. So, it is the wine that Sarah and her wife have made. And that's what our folks are drinking. Now, this particular bottle, it comes from one of the five major subregions of Galicia, which is Rías Baixas. So, I've shared a map of Galicia here, the northwest corner of Spain. Rías Baixas is the region that is divided further into five subregions, which is maddening because no one really gives a rat's ass about two of the five subregions. They're kind of hangers-on. The three major subregions that actually deserve numbers here are all significant in their own way. But for the sake of our wines today, we're going to talk about the subzone of Alessalnes, which by far is the most significant of the bunch. So, you're just north of Ponta Verra.

You are spitting distance from the sea. And because you have this Atlantic coastal influence, because you have the sea spray blanketing the vineyards, temperatures are cooler. So, you're going to have a lot of water. And the climate tends to be wetter. So, you're getting closer to 50 inches of rain as opposed to 40. And the wines are a little leaner, a little racier. Albariño has much to recommend it as a grape. It is hugely aromatic. And I think, you know, that's one of the appeals of Albariño. Albariño was really the first breakout star of this larger region. It was the first grape that people latched onto that is native to Rías Baixas. Native to the subzone of Galicia that people were able to identify with the region of Spain itself.

Now, it can be made in many styles. So, the two that we have, because they're from the subzone of Salmes within the larger region of Rías Baixas, they have more of a bright briny kind of maritime style to them. They are made by a proud daughter of the region. Marta Castro. This is Marta. You can see her pergolas in the background there. She left Rías Baixas. She left a family estate that had been making wine for over a century and a half. And, you know, she was of the mind that, you know, I want to get the hell out of this small town. But, you know, a funny thing happened to her as she got older. And she came to develop a fuller respect for what she had left behind.

And she came back to revive the family estate. And she is working with many different parcels, but vines that age or range in age from two decades to some two centuries old. A lot of these pergola-trained vines do get very, very old. She is someone in her wines that wants to maintain a certain amount of freshness, but also wants to give her wines some substance as well. So, she blocks on her wines. She finds Malolactic Fermentation. So, that, you know, kind of secondary part of the fermentation process that we talked about that is carried out by these bacteria that are not the yeast that initially converts sugar into alcohol. They are different bacteria that converts Malic Acid, which tastes like green apples, into Lactic Acid, which tastes like yogurt.

She inhibits that. But she does something else to give her wines more richness than they would have otherwise. And it is very common for the sake of Albarino. She leaves the wines on the lees. And not only that, but she practices Batinage. So, she leaves the wine on the dead yeast cells left over after fermentation. And she does what the French call Batinage, which is stirring of the lees. And that imparts a richness and a wonderful breadth of texture to her offerings that they wouldn't have otherwise. So, it is kind of a fun push-pull. So, on one hand, she wants to keep things bright and fresh. And she is inhibiting, you know, that, you know, layer of opulence that you can get through Malolactic Fermentation.

But on the other hand, she still wants to give some things some weight. And, you know, that is why she stirs the lees. And I think that is kind of a fun push-pull. You know, she is seeking that, you know, middle ground in a really, you know, kind of wonderful way. My wine comes from a different producer. He has been making wine a little longer in the region. He is kind of, you know, of the new generation, one of the old guard. His name is Gerardo Mendez. And Gerardo started making wine there. He started making wine there in the 70s. You can get, you know, this is an older pergola-trained vine. For the sake of the Do Ferrero, this is kind of their entry-level cuvee.

It comes from 50-plus-year-old vines universally. He is someone that gives the same lees context as Martha does with her wine. But he doesn't stir as much. So, you know, he is not going to stir the lees. He is just going to kind of let the wine hang on the lees. So, that gives a little richness but maybe not quite as much as you get if you are agitating those lees. Throughout the winemaking process. And, you know, if you think about that like, you know, making tea or making any other infusion. You know, there are a lot of variables there. But the more you agitate something, the more actively that infusion proceeds for the sake of what you are working with.

I love Albarino because it, I think, you know, done well strikes this wonderful balance between this like fresh maritime salinity. It's purity. And also a bit of opulence. Thompson, I will let you speak to yours since, you know, I am not trying the lagar or let your parents shout some tasting notes at us from afar. You know, in your mind, having tried Albarino, is this, you know, like a more Chablis-like Albarino or more Montrachet-like kind of Albarino? More Chablis-like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and there is something, you know, for me that is very familiar about Albarino. It's not maybe a wine that asks a question. It asks a lot of you. You know, it's not, you know, there is nothing, you know, it's not a natty wine.

You know, it's not, you know, going to, you know, stop you in your tracks. You know, I am not going to, you know, just kind of look, gaze into the depths of this glass and, you know, think about the wine for hours on end. But it's pleasant. You know, it's immensely pleasant. And it's immensely satisfying. And it's a great food wine because it has that racy acid, which it retains as it ripens really well. And also because it has some weight. So, you know, those wines that are both acid-driven and a little weighty, you know, they are skeleton cheese for the sake of pairing. You know, in my mind, the D'Ofero got a lot of that bright briny dimension on the nose, a lot of, like, green apple.

But there's something, you know, a little more opulent about it on the back ends. You know, even, you know, kind of wonderfully tropical about it on the finish that I think is hugely refreshing. So, yeah. So, do you have any questions about the Albarinos and Riggs? Yeah. So, well, not about the Albarino itself, but in terms of the vine age. Yeah. Pete's asking, you know, she thought that vines were only good for 20 to 30 years. What's with vines that are 100 plus years? People can still produce viable grapes. Yeah. It's like, how do we define good? You know? When do we put, you know, grandma and gramps out to pasture? You know? It's like, so maybe they're not as productive as they once were.

Maybe they don't get around as fast as they used to, you know, as they used to. But, you know, if you, you know, ask them the right question, you get them in the right setting, you know, they're hugely interesting. You know, they have a lifetime worth of stories to tell. So, vines work the same way. They get progressively less productive as they age. That is universally true of almost all living things. So, in a commercial setting, yes, producers after 30 years, after 50 years is a typical benchmark. You know, the yields on the fruit are not sufficient to sustain commercial viticulture profitably. But the fun thing is that as your yields get, you know, lower and lower, the fruit that you are plucking in smaller and smaller quantities gets more and more interesting.

So, you know, if you're willing to offset, you know, the cost of less fruit by, you know, charging more, or if you're willing to offset it by, you know, getting people to pay more because the wine itself is special, you know, then, you know, you have a prize. And you've learned something, you know, really profound about grapes. And, you know, vines will die of, you know, various blights on themselves. But they will live 300. They're 300-year-old Tinto Paisa. These vines in Chile, because they don't have Palaxra there. It's crazy. Vines will live a very, you know, long time. And it is, you know, the old vines themselves are treasures. I think, you know, you saw, you got a sense of on that, you know, Lagana de Pintos image, you know, how, you know, thick that trunk was, you know, on that pergola-trained vine.

And the vines, they're like olive trees. They start to take on personalities of their own. And, you know, life forces of their own. And, you know, that certainly is worth celebrating. You know, why would you throw that away after 20 years for the mere sake of, you know, a ton, you know, or, you know, a few baskets more of grapes every year? Great. So, do you have anything else, Thompson? Do you know the etymology of Albariño? I don't actually know. Actually, actually, actually, I do. It comes from the Latin for white. It comes from the Latin for white, refers to a grape that is very pale in color, not unlike myself. So, yeah, so that is, that is the etymology on Albariño there. We're moving on to Trichodura.

I do not know the etymology on Trichodura for the commenters in the mix. It's a total one-off and happy accident. I promise I did not put Sarah up to that question just to make me look good. For the sake of the linguists in the audience. I am not drinking the wine that most of you are drinking, I would imagine, if you provisioned through our online store. Sarah is. The flower and the bee, a triumph of packaging, it should be said, the flower and the bee. Trichodura, for those of you that are playing along at home, that is the pronunciation, Trichodura. Trichodura is another native grape. Many of these grapes, Albariño, Trichodura, Mentia, Gadejo, they exist kind of in this realm of both Galician and belonging also to northern Portugal.

So historically, culturally, those regions kind of grew up together. And so you see different names for them on either side of the border. And they are very much important to winemaking on both sides of the border. Trichodura, more often than not, is actually a blending agent. I can remember trying the flower and the bee with my compatriot, Ali, at Tail of Goat when we were tasting for our spring list, which was to be dedicated to these wines. And trying this wine, thinking, Jesus, like this is the best single variety of Trichodura that I've ever had. And, you know, that's, I don't want to damn it with faint praise because it's a delicious wine. But honestly, I haven't had a lot of single varietal Trichoduras. They don't exist. Historically.

You had a single varietal Trichodura on the opening Tail of Goat list, right? That is true. I did the Aire de los Moros. That was another unicorn. So I do love wine unicorns. Thank you, Sarah. But there are not a lot of them. And historically, actually, to the extent that they did exist, they existed in the guise of what the Galician called potala. So these dried grape wines. Which would have been dessert wines. Which, in antiquity, really were the bee's knees, so to speak. They tended to be the most prestigious wines in the world were sweeter wines in antiquity. Now, we are exploring a different region here. This is Ribeiro. So we are, you know, diving deeper into the land of 2,000 rivers. Ribeiro exists. So this is the Rio Minho.

That kind of traces the border between the two. Between Spain and Portugal initially. And then the Rio Sil kind of proceeds as a tributary. But along the Minho, as it comes together with other tributaries, you have Ribeiro. You're further inland, so you have less of the coastal influence. So it's a little warmer here than it is in other places. Which means that red grapes can ripen a little more readily than they can in some other spots. And this, you're in a sub-zone of Ribeiro called the Val de Gomarrich. So the producer takes its name from a valley within the kind of larger sub-region of Galicia. Or of Ribeiro. The winemaker here is kind of newer to the scene. But fascinating dude. Great name. This is Jose Luis Cedillo.

We are spelling Jose with an X because, you know, why not? This is Jose. So cool picture, obviously. What's the deal with the horn? Well, Jose practices biodynamic viticulture. So if this was Pee Wee's Playhouse, the couches would be glowing like on fire. Bidynamic was like our secret word of the day. Bidynamics is a form of viticulture. It's a form of farming. It is, you know, equally, you know, scientific in its own way, but kind of distilled from centuries' worth of Eastern European folk wisdom. It is based on a series of lectures given by a gentleman named Rudolf Steiner, who was an Austrian philosoph, founder of the Waldorf School, among other things. And in the wake of World War I. In the wake of the initial development of industrial fertilizing, which exhausted the soils of Europe.

He wanted to kind of go back to the land and revive more sustainable traditions of agriculture. So biodynamics is all about organic viticulture on one hand. So eschewing chemical intervention, modern chemical intervention. But also it's all about considering the farm as a substance. A self-sustaining unit. So it encompasses not only grapevines, but the animals, the other plants, the people on the land. And ideally, the whole farm itself is a single organism that is self-sustaining and self-perpetuating. Now, this embraces certain somewhat religious kind of rituals. In this case, Jose is showing off a horn that was used to prepare a fertilizer mix. So under the biodynamic program, you would shove compost and all sorts of other stuff in a horn, burying it underground for a measure of months or years.

Dig it up and catalyze that as a spray for your vineyards in lieu of other herbicides or fungicides. And, you know, at home, you're probably thinking to yourself, what a load of shit. You know, these guys, you know, are full of it. You know, what's the deal? You know, it should be said that. You know, yes, there is a dearth of, you know, scientific method when it comes to the application of these methods. But it should further be said that, you know, we are willing to live in the mystery. And biodynamic farming is responsible for many of the greatest wines in the world. And it is something that this particular producer has embraced wholeheartedly. They've gone even further and embraced the methods of a Japanese farmer named Fukuyoka.

And, you know, that's a lesson for another day. But they are looking for ways to work with the land that are more sustainable. You know, that are, you know, less, you know, intensive, that are kinder to the soil. They want to leave the vineyards for future generations. And, you know, I think it's significant for the sake of Galicia as an older wine region that's been rehabilitated by a younger generation. I think you see that a lot in these lands that time forgot. These younger winemakers that are, you know, coming back to the land and, you know, wanting to resurrect these older vineyards. But do so in a way that leaves a legacy. And Gomareesh is very much at the forefront of that movement in Galicia.

Thompson, do you want to give them some tasting notes for the sake of this particular offering? And I believe you are unmuted. Am I unmuted now? You're unmuted, yeah. What are your tasting notes on the Tresador that you're drinking? You know, honestly, I love, so I love Ali's tasting notes on this because I was reading them before I actually tried any of it. And it does have, like, it starts to go into this lightly Gewurztraminer territory when you smell it. Gewurzt, for those of you playing at home, is a famously aromatic grape. The German name Gewurzt, for the linguists, comes from spice in German. Tresadora. Tresadora, famously lower acid than Albarino. So hopefully those of you that have the Tresadora versus the Albarino, you'll notice that, you know, the acid is not quite as raging on this.

Tresadora is more precocious. It's an early ripener. It goes into, you know, sweeter wines. But, you know, it's fleshier and super fun that way, I think. And it has this beautiful, I think. Like white, like I'm standing in the middle of a valley with a bunch of white flowers eating some kind of lemon curd. Yeah, who doesn't want that? I mean, the name itself, the flower and the bee, you know, it's not just a clever marketing device. It actually tastes that way. But it's also a clever marketing device. But it always reminds me of the blind lemon, or blind melon, rather, the Chris Farley in a bee costume. At any rate. I am drinking a Tresadora that is a little more traditional for the sake of being a blend, an all-encompassing blend.

It's a bit of a Kinshasing blend. Mine is Albarino, Gadeo, Tresadora, some Tarantis in the mix, and Caño Blanco. A word about Tarantis. Tarantis exists in Galicia, but there are actually a lot of different subtypes of Tarantis that may or may not correspond to the most famous Tarantis, which has come to Argentina and is usually just gross, but occasionally can be aromatic and fun. But at any rate, I think it's a fun wine, first and foremost. And I think both of these whites, they bring this lovely freshness to the party that I think is something that is really intrinsic about Galician wine across styles, is that freshness, that brightness, that quality of being food-friendly. And I think it's consistent with the food, too. You know, a lot of you asked about pairings.

The Galician cuisine is largely predicated on seafood. So they were historically famous fishermen. Octopus is like the most famous dish. Traditionally, octopus with a boiled potato. Pimientos de parrón, these like blistered peppers, are hugely famous there. Fresh fish. To the extent that they're eating cheese. Largely, they're eating cheese. Largely, it's cow's milk cheese, but it's like a softer cow's milk cheese, but not like funky applause. Just more kind of like, you know, fresh and farmer's cheese. It's humble. You know, this is like peasant's cuisine. And these are wines that you want to, you know, eat alongside all of those things. And again, like, I like the idea that they don't demand a lot. And, you know, there's a lot of value to be had here for the sake of them as well, which is, you know, always worth celebrating.

Lastly, I wanted to get to Gadeo. A few of you might have Gadeo in the mix. And we sold some Gadeo through our wine store. I'm going to bring up the map that you all have seen many times before here. But it's a good map. Maps are important. Wine is a map. The Gadeo we were selling is from Monterrey. The Mountain of Kings. So you're all familiar with that. We're along the Portuguese border there. There's a decent amount of Gadeo that also comes from Valdeiras. It's the Valley of Gold. Very evocative names. Kings, gold. You know, we are, you know, we're swimming. We are, you know, swimming in chips. At any rate, Gadeo is a grape that requires a little more ripening.

It is a little more versatile, honestly, than the other two grapes that we've taken on so far. It's a little more Chardonnay-like. You can make a Chablis-like Gadeo. You can also make a rich, round, Cali-chard-like Gadeo. And I think it's really fun to play with to that end. It's a grape that people are coming around to and is really carving out a name for itself. And I think a lot of the winemakers in the region are still kind of getting a fuller sense of how to work with. Because you are further east and further removed from the maritime influence of the Atlantic in Valdeiras, Monterrey. It's a lot hotter. You get a lot more ripeness out of the wines in those two regions.

And typically out of Gadeo, more broadly speaking, for the sake of those wines. So, we've covered the white. Did you want to hit me with any more questions about white wine before we move on to the reds? Yeah. Actually, you talked a little bit about the Tres Chadoras that we're tasting. Yeah. With one being primarily a single varietal and yours having a blend. And Jennifer actually asked a really good question about, how much of the varietal, like what percentage of the varietal needs to be encompassed in the wine in order for the varietal to be listed on the label? That's an excellent question that I don't know the answer to, Jennifer. So, those regulations would vary and they would be controlled by the DO. So, there are five denominations of origin under the Spanish system in Galicia.

In the case of the Tres Chadoras, we're dealing with Rivero. And Rivero, as a designation of origin, they would have a board that would regulate that and decide how much Tres Chadoras had to be mixed to call the wine Tres Chadoras. And they would further decide whether Tres Chadoras was allowed at all in wines called Rivero. And then furthermore, they would stipulate, you know, how much Tres Chadoras could we produce in a given year and throw it into our Rivero wines. And, you know, maybe how could we train the vines or what would the wine taste like on the back end? So, all sorts of different stipulations that would be regulated at a local level. But I don't know what the requirements are, honestly, for Rivero. Again, we're dealing with unicorns here.

And you're in an emerging, kind of an emerging wine region, so I imagine there would be a little more forward thinking about allowing the varietal itself to be put on the label for the sake of branding their wines internationally. Typically, you know, Americans, international consumers tend to be kind of varietally obsessed for the sake of their wines, so they don't want to know that something is Rivero. They don't give a rat's ass about Chablis. They want to know Chardonnay. They want to know Tres Chadoras. And usually in regions that are, you know, younger in terms of their modern, wine-making infrastructure, they'll be a little kind of faster on the beat for the sake of legally nailing. All right, one last question before you move on. Eloy just joined us.

And while you said that the, you know, mostly that up in the northwestern Spanish region that there are more similarities to Portugal, but can you speak to the differences between maybe Alvarinho and Albarinho? Honestly, it's a rose by any other name scenario. So one's Portuguese, one's Spanish. I will say that you're moving south going into Portugal, but there are all sorts of mitigating circumstances. So Albarinho or Alvarinho in Portugal, you know, just terribly throw on, you know, different accents, often goes into, first and foremost in Portugal, in terms of the amount of wine produced, Vinho Verde. And Vinho Verde is delicious, poundable, but it's more of like an alcoholic sprite, you know, situation. It's more of like a, you know, it's like more, you know, it's like the center home.

It's more socially acceptable center home. If we're talking about varietally driven wines in Portugal, I find that, actually, Alvarinho in Portugal is a little more substantive. It's a little fleshier, a little fuller. You are a little fuller south there, and maybe capable of a little more ripeness. And, you know, most of the major Portuguese wine making regions, they don't have the same maritime influence that a region like Rio de Baixas does. So to the extent that there is single varietal Alvarinho in Portugal, and there is, and there's some amazing wines, and they pair really well with a lot of different food at this really special moment, when I spent way too much money on lunch at Le Bernardin once upon a time. But, you know, neither here nor there.

They just tend to be bigger wines than the Spanish equivalent. So that would be kind of like the quickest answer there. And I'd say uniformly, with the exceptions of stuff that's going into Vinho Verde, which is kind of an outlier, because, again, it's like a self-contained wine spritzer, Vinho Verde. And it's good. Like, I love that about it. You know, no hate mail. From the Vinho Verde fans. But, you know, more serious wine from Portugal tends to be more robust. And fascinatingly enough, to the extent that Galicia was losing workers, because there was no work to be had there, historically actually lost a lot of migrant labor to port country for the sake of harvest. Just because there was more money to be made there.

There was more, there were more grapes to be brought in for the sake of, you know, a more thriving, you know, export business. Groovy. So switching gears, red wine. So I want to start here. What is Galician wine not for the sake of the reds we're dealing with? I've had the experience as, you know, a wine guy, however you want to, for better or worse, call what it is that I do for a living, the preposterous way that I've come to earn my daily bread. But I've had the experience of people ordering red wine, and when you go to a table and someone asks for red wine, you know, they're not asking for red across all categories. What they mean is, I want a big fucking red wine.

And, you know, that's, that's fine. You know, I'm all for that. You know, you know, I like to slip into, you know, the right big ass red. You know, by the fire, in the right moments, with steak, etc. You know, those are, you know, fun, guilty pleasures. But as I drink more, where I find myself wanting to land more for the sake of red is this fun, kind of savory, mineral-driven, you know, kind of sheep and wolf's clothing, or wolf and sheep's clothing, I think it's wolf and sheep's clothing, kind of place, for the sake of these racier, lighter reds. And that's what Galician does. So you're not going to get Cali Cab in Galician. There are a few wines from the interior. We've got a saffra, valdareas, etc.

that start to tip the scales, and that start to get more robust. But that is not what we're dealing with here. These are light, savory, bright, briny red wines, and unapologetically so. And, you know, there is something to be said for that. You know, in, in Europe they are, in Spanish they have a great word like, they're vinos gastronomicos, they're gastronomic wines, which doesn't come across in English the same way, because it sounds like super douchey, but they're wines you want to eat with. And I love that. And, you know, I find, you know, for the sake of the food at Teotihuacan and Red Rose Tower, these are the wines that I want to drink with that food. And the first one up, for the sake of the bundle, is from Ríos Baixas.

So this is from the Maritime Region. And the bulk, the vast majority of plantings in Ríos Baixas are to white grapes. This is a bit of an outlier. As such, this is Mentia Caíño Nespadero. Mentia is the most significant red grape in Galicia. It was thought to be derived from Cap Franc. It was thought to be identical to Cap Franc. The origin story goes that, you know, the French monks that were traipsing their way, to see their sins forgiven, with, you know, the pilgrimage, or the pilgrims along the Camino, they brought cuttings of Cap Franc with them that got rebranded Mentia in Galicia. That was the origin story once upon a time. And there is a lot of continuity, because Mentia has this cool herbaceousness that's very reminiscent of a lot of, like, Lower Valley Cap Franc.

That is total bollocks. Modern genetic evidence has uncovered the actual origins of Mentia, which are actually Portuguese. It's great called Cheyenne as well, for those of you playing along at home. And it's just its own thing. But what's cool about it is it's super herbal. And on top of that, it has this, like, pimentonish kind of charred red pepper tone that I find hugely seductive. The one we're drinking is from Pepe de Horlunga. I love, so this comes from, Francisco Miguel Alfonso. I don't know what Francisco's wife's name is. She looks amazing. She looks like his ride or die. I want to go to war with her. You know, I want her to have my back in all social situations. Like, you know, I just wish for more of her.

At any rate, Pepe de Horlunga means big rock in the local Gallego dialect. And they make a bunch of wines. This is a lighter red for their sake. And it's a field blend. And that's very significant. Like, the notion of single varietal wine, as we appreciate it, is a relatively modern phenomenon. Historically, especially in variable regions, like Galicia, where there's always a struggle, in places that are as close to the coast as Viespa-Eixas, there's a struggle to ripen grapes. And from one year to another, it pays to have different grapes that ripen at different intervals. And to have the same vineyard planted with multiple varietals. So it's not going to be the case that, you know, you have someone, you know, looking through a catalog and saying, you know, I want this clone of Mentia to plant all my vineyards with.

You know, circa, you know, 1900. It didn't work that way. You know, they would propagate cuttings from neighbors. And, you know, there'd be a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And maybe a particular producer would develop a house style. But it wasn't always varietally driven. It was more about their particular, what the Galician called terruño, which is their own, you know, Spanish inflection on terroir. I love, love, love this wine. It is, you know, for what it is, you know, both profound and multifaceted and hugely delicious, but also light. You know, it belies this notion that to be complex, red wine has to be huge. It belies the notion that you have to throw massive amounts of oak at something for it to be interesting.

You know, this is all stainless. There's some whole cluster in the mix for the wine nerds. That refers to the act of leaving stems and whole grape clusters in the mix during that initial maceration period. And the stems give you something more peppery, something more herbaceous for the sake of the wine. They also tend to knock down acidity a little bit, knock down alcohol, and they make for a more efficient fermentation very often. But this is stupid good. It's stupid good at 12% alcohol, which is like, you know, again, like, you know, we don't talk much about alcohol in wine, but it's fun to be able to drink more. You know, my wife and I went on vacation in Germany, and we got on a very dangerous but very fun let's each drink a bottle of Riesling before we go out kind of track because you can, because it's like 10 and 11% alcohol.

Like, that's good. It's not a bad thing. So, you know, it's a fun one. And it's just like, you know, for something that's as light and wildly fish-crunching as it is, just really fabulous and interesting. All right. That brings us, lastly, to Laura Lorenzo, who is a bit of a natural winemaking superstar. We're going to go back to the map one last time because Laura is operating in Rivera Sacra, which we've not discussed to our detriment as of yet. Rivera Sacra is the sacred banks, so named because there are so many monasteries lining the banks of the river here. You saw that map earlier with all the pilgrimage routes. You needed all sorts of monasteries to service those pilgrims, and monks make wine, which is what they do.

So in Rivera, long history of winemaking. The region of Rias Baixas is five subregions. Rivera Sacra has five subregions as well. I'm not going to bore you with them. But those subregions actually mean something, and they're actually worthwhile, unlike the subregions of Rias Baixas. But Laura is in the kind of easternmost subregion. It's called Quiroga Iberê. Laura is a total badass. Rivera is like this, you have the seal and the Minho converging. The picture I showed earlier of how cartoonishly beautiful, or just the landscape in Galicia was from Rivera. It's this amazing canyon-like, Grand Canyon-like, but more verdant environment. And it takes heroic work, truly heroic work, to cultivate grapes and make wine there. Laura is a proud daughter of the region. She's a fourth of nature.

She has white dreadlocks. So, brace yourselves. Unfortunate. She's beautiful, nonetheless. She's a total badass. She got the magazine treatment. I want to know, you know, how I can get on the cover of this magazine. But at any rate, she's a bit of a natural wine demigod. And what she's done that's so cool is she's brought this kind of international perspective to the wines of this otherwise parochial region. So, she developed a love for wine at a young age, and at 16 decided to be a winemaker, enrolled in a local oenology school, trained in South Africa with Evan Saadi, who's this natural wine making demigod. It's funny, it's not uncommon to see that. And it's one of the really cool things about the global wine community these days, is even in a historic backwater like Galicia, you see this, you know, kind of exchange of knowledge.

And you have people coming, you know, from harvest to harvest, north and south, to different regions and exchanging secrets. And that's something that's very common in the young life of the cellar rat, because the most significant time in the life of a vineyard is during harvest. And you can work, you know, let's say, you know, August or September through November in the Northern Hemisphere, and then go to the Southern Hemisphere and work their harvest in our spring. And that way, just kind of multiply your knowledge. And that's something that almost everybody does. And, you know, even in otherwise stodgy regions, everybody does. You know, I helped organize a Riesling conference this past year. And, you know, you have these like stodgy uptight Germans that are, you know, telling these rivaled stories about partying with Aussies because they make that exchange.

And I think that's totally worth celebrating. For the sake of someone like Laura, what's really cool is that she's gone kind of back to the future. So she has this unparalleled love of old vine source material. So she is really seeking to revive these abandonados, these older plots, these vineyards that, you know, may not even be planted to grapes that, you know, are readily identifiable. And she's saying, you know, these are special vineyards and I want to work with them. And not only that, but I want to work with them in a really low intervention style. So we have yet to, for the sake of our wine class, really to dive deeply when it comes to, air quotes, natural wine. Laura is very much a natural winemaking demigod.

You know, we will, you know, devote, you know, future classes to that subject, but she is very hands off. So, you know, she doesn't use a lot of sulfur at bottling, which can be an important preservative, but she also favors a style of winemaking that employs a lot of whole cluster. So she's making wine in a more Beaujolais Nouveau-ish kind of style. We have two wines on offer from her. One is called Tabernario. It is ridiculously light. It's a bit of a lemonade out of lemon situation because in this vintage, she wasn't able to make some of her single crews because the weather was not favorable. So she plucked some red grapes and a few white grapes for the sake of Palomino from some of her parcels.

And threw them in the mix together and made something that personifies this French notion of what they call glue-glue. Glue-glue is basically French for glug-glug. The idea is it's a red wine that you can slam. And the other wine that you guys have in the mix, the Portela de Vento, is her kind of slightly more prestigious version of the same. They are both derived from Mentia. They're both easier drinking versions of the Pedro Longa. They are racy and acid-driven. And depending on the bottle, sometimes they have a little bit of a pin prickle like petulance or acidity or even carbonation. And that's kind of intentional. It can be a bit of re-fermentation in the bottle because there's not a ton of sulfur in the mix.

But the wine's not bad. The milk's still good. There's nothing wrong with it. It's an intentional desire. It's a desire for what she's making. She wants it to be something fun and fresh and easy drinking. This is not a let's go to the steakhouse and impress clients kind of wine. It's wine that you sit around the table with friends and enjoy. And that's very much how Laura conceptualized it. And for me, that's the best of what the Gallegos have to offer. So Thompson, I promise we'll get to questions here. I just want to wrap things up while we're at the hour mark. Folks are going to leave us. Thank you for staying on the line as always this long, everyone 200 plus of you today. Shameless plug, flying blind, flying blind.

If you want to dive deeper down this rabbit hole and see me embarrass myself, Thursday at 7, yet another Zoom link. You can buy the wines through Tail Up Goat this week only. They will be specially wrapped by Birthday Girl. Sorry? Revelers Hour, not Tail Up Goat. Sorry, sorry. They'll be specially wrapped by Zoe. So you will not know what they are either when they come to you. We will have note cards in an envelope for you to seal, like unseal rather, like Oscar voters if you miss class. So it's a true blind tasting experience for you at home. And it can be an interactive experience if you want to enjoy it. So just another way to nerd out with your friends at Tail Up Goat and Revelers Hour.

So for sake of today's class, again, wanted to celebrate the way that Galician wines subverts traditional expectations of Spanish wine. When you talk about any country, for the sake of anything that is related to art or culture, it's important not to paint everything with the same brush. Yes, a lot of Spanish wines are big and red, but they're not all that way. And more often than not, the most interesting things coming out of place are the exceptions to the rule. And for the sake of Galician wine, it's been fun to celebrate that diversity, to celebrate those local origins. And lastly, I've been to Catalonia. I haven't really been to Spain. I've been to Barcelona, which is kind of a different thing entirely. I've never been to Galicia.

I have a really good near and dear friend who spent a year in Spain, and said that it was his favorite part of the country, and I would love to go there sometime. But what I love about wine is that, having consumed these things, and having read about them, got deeper into them, I feel a kinship with the people, and with the place, and with the drink. And I feel like I know something deeper about it, because I have consumed something that is so intrinsically in and of it. And you kind of have to, you have to work at that. You have to train yourself to be sensitive to it. But that is one of my favorite things about wine done well, and we're celebrating for our sake while we are all isolated at home. So as always, alone together, cheers to you all. I love you guys.

Yeah, that's good. Thompson, what do you got for me? Yeah, a few things. So, Tim wants to know why he wasn't invited to the Riesling Conference. Let's get the important questions out. Okay, so I, so the official name of the Riesling Conference was FL Excursion. We are preparing for not, this is 20, it's 2020, but 2021, there'll be a new, there'll be another edition of FL Excursion. Everybody's invited. Tim, this is my first year on the steering committee for the sake of FL Excursion. And, you know, I had to, it was a bit of a Joseph Campbell kind of hero's journey for me in the midst of all that. So it was a bit of a knight's quest. It was a bit of something that I had to tackle by myself for the sake of the first go round.

For the sake of the second iteration, it will get much more Bacchanalian. There'll be some kind of group house experience. It'll become sort of like, yeah, exactly. Andy Cohen sponsored, you know, a tail up goat house, like at any rate, we'll make that all happen. But now we'll come to you for the sake of the Finger Lakes wine experience. It's a very special place. And, you know, we will devote, you know, more, you know, breath to that at a later point in time. All right. To speak actually towards Galithia, can you talk about some of the bigger red varietals in Galithia and then also what temperature you would usually drink the reds at? Yeah. So for the sake of temp, I want these colder.

You know, I want these to be colder than, so, you know, a little cooler than solid temp, maybe like upper 50s, lower 60s at the highest. You know, for the sake of something like Laura's wine, you know, for me, this almost drinks like a white, you know, I almost want this like at orange wine temp. This is like, it always fascinates me about the- What's orange wine temp for the masses? I don't know. Somewhere between white and red. I'm not, I'm not usually, like this, this motion right here, sir. I'm not, I'm not great about the, the science of all that. Like, so, so hypothetically you're serving whites like somewhere between 42 and 48. You know, I, who's, who's, who is, I guess maybe people, people have access to thermal, like thermometers.

I guess we're getting more exacting about our temperature taking these days, but, you know, to use the home, I think the home fridge should be the barometer. So, you know, taking a wine directly out of a home fridge and serving it is like only, it should only really be a thing for sparkling wine. If you're drinking white wine, you know, give it at least half an hour. You know, if you're drinking, you know, orange wine, give it an hour. So, you know, maybe treat this like that. That's kind of how I treated this for the sake of class. You know, conversely, you know, most red wines are too hot. Give it half an hour to an hour in the fridge prior to, to drinking.

I, I think like, you know, how much time in a home fridge is almost a better barometer than, you know, degrees Fahrenheit. Unless you have a wine cave, in which case, more power to you. Yeah. Um, and an overarching question, and actually, I'm going to speak to one thing really quickly, which is your amazing ability to blind taste. So, I will put a little pitch in for the blind tasting thing because watching Bill blind taste is one of the funnest things I've ever, ever had the, the pleasure of. Way to build it up for everyone, Thompson. He's really animated and excited and, you know, you think he's animated now, just wait until the blind tasting class. Um, but, people outside of the DC area are actually wondering, uh, what their options will be.

Um, and whether Will, maybe Zoe, can send an email separately that you won't be aware of? I didn't, that hadn't even occurred to me and it speaks to, um, our reach for the sake of this program and, um, love to you all. Never imagined ever doing anything like this, um, let alone wearing my own face while doing something like this. So, um, Yes! No, it's, it's, no, it's awesome. Um, yeah, we, we wanna, you know, the bigger we can make this, the better. Um, so, uh, reach out to, reach out to Zoe or just, honestly,

either, either, either write wine school at Tailup Goat or we have a separate now, um, uh, Revelers Hour Wine School email handle. So either wine school at Tailup Goat or wine school at Revelers Hour, better yet, that, that Zoe is, um, in charge of maintaining, uh, and we'll, we'll make that happen for you for the sake of provisioning. Um, we're not in a position ourselves, uh, to, uh, ship wine, um, in, you know, the current, you know, legal regime. Um, but there are a lot of people who are, um, uh, and there are a lot of really amazing, I, I don't think, so like, when I wanna buy something myself that's like specific, I'll usually order it, well, I like to support local retailers, but like, if I'm really looking for something, I buy it online.

Um, uh, two of my favorites, well, I have three favorites, honestly, uh, that are, um, uh, two in New York, um, Astor, uh, and Chambers Street, um, and then one in LA. I think that, I think K&L actually is not, I think they're just doing California now because of pandemic, but, um, yeah, they're, they're great. They're all great. And you have to promise in front of all 172 current participants that you will not go into the wine school at Revelers? so, I, I was actually, so, Zoe engineered a massive box that will Instagram that is like the containment vehicle for the wine school wines because, um, for those of you, you know, that, that don't do this for a living, obviously, there's a fear that, you know, when this wine comes in from our merchants that I'll casually, you know, glance at a case that I know and that will ruin the roost, but I, Zoe's been advised, she's taken the necessary, so, we have like a wine, like, Jimmy hat, for lack of a better word, in the wine room, a prophylactic for the wine school wines so that I have no idea what I am drinking come, uh, Thursday. So, I'm, I'm, I'm very excited about that. And I, I, I, I scout to honor, I promise, like, I don't wanna violate the trust, you know, if anyone's gonna look like an ass, I want to be me because it'll be more entertaining for the sake of the viewing public when it, when it comes to these exercises. So, you know, yeah. Heidi says you can trust, that we can trust you because you wear yourself on your shirt.

Does that make me more or less trustworthy, Heidi? I, I just, I just, I just don't know. I, I don't know. One of these shades matches Heidi's hair for those of you not playing along at home, which is, which is very, very exciting and very meta for the sake of, uh, the Tail Up Goat Commentariat. That's all I got. Oh, wow. No more, no more Galician questions. Wow. Awesome. So, guys, I'm, I'm hugely excited. Just, just a bit of a spoiler alert. We're gonna be doing, Shannon, Shannon, um, come, uh, next Sunday, which I know a lot of people have been asking for. We're gonna have a, a special guest, uh, for the sake of, uh, a really lovely woman who's a negociant, um, in, uh, the Lower Valley, uh, and we'll have all the secrets to share for the sake of Shannon. But, um, yeah, thanks again, uh, for you all, um, for joining us every Sunday and, um, you know, uh, making this what it's become. Um, you know, I'm hugely, hugely grateful to you all and, um, you know, hope you all are, uh, safe and sound and isolating in style. Cheers.