New School-Old School Battle Royale with Domestique: California Across Generations

Class transcript:

All right, we are releasing the hounds. Welcome, one and all. It is Sunday. It is a beautiful day. It is a beautiful day in Washington, DC. I hope it is equally beautiful wherever you happen to be posting up by your computer phone and joining us. We are thrilled to have you here. As always, we're going to give folks a few minutes to enter the virtual lecture hall. With me, as always, one Zoe Nystrom. Zoe, say hello to the people. Your cat in view there, too. Zoe's cat joining us today. Hi, everyone. I brought a cute little tree. Now my people give me all of their attention just so they can eat it. So there's that. Happy bingo, everyone. Nice. Big ups to Zoe.

She just got into grad school this week and now just has to cobble together the funds to pay for it. So, congratulations, Zoe. Thank you. Equally thrilled, it should be said, for the sake of this collaborative lesson with our friends from Domestique, a cross-town throwdown, new school, old school California. I am the old fogey in the context of this lesson. Joining us to represent The New School is Eric Moore. Eric, say hello to the people. Thank you so much for joining us, man. Hello, people. It's really nice to be here. I don't feel very new school, but I will. I will do my best to represent appropriately. I don't know how old school I feel. I just feel old school when I talk to my servers and drop the wrong, you know, kind of like movie or, you know, like musical references, although there is there is now a coming to America sequel.

So maybe my servers will start to get my, you know, coming to America references now that there is a sequel properly available on on the Netflix. I'm hoping so. I'm really hoping so. I feel the same way when I make references and I'm like, 'no, no.' Okay, cool. And Eric, your pride, pride of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, aren't you? Yes, absolutely. 100%. Amazing. My wife's family is, is from the, the Paris of Appalachias. Yeah, yeah, she. They actually took us to our first Steelers. Game last year, and we were bummed that we missed out on our Steelers game this year. So, yeah, but yeah, I'm being from that area that that means automatically that your, your wife and her family are good people so I see that you've chosen well, I was not drinking, you know, fine wines there was more Steel City, you know, light or, you know, I see light.

Yeah, I see. All right. I'm sweating now. It was, it was, it was early in the morning dude it was like it was like tailgating so it just it just felt, it felt right. Yeah, you need to think four and a half percent today in a steel can or steel bottle with the twist-off top. Yes, yeah. At any rate, thank you so much for joining us. So, we have, you know, for the sake of this lesson done kind of across town, you know, provisioning experiment, I hope that, you know, many of you were able to visit Domestique, as well as Right. And many of you were able to visit Domestique, as well as Prevail's Hour to cobble together these wines. We featured some really iconic brands for the sake of those of you purchasing from afar.

So hopefully, those are readily readily available in your marketplace. We have a flight of three for the sake of the old school offerings featuring Sky Vineyards, Micamas, and Heights. and Heights. Definitely among, you know, Napa Valley's OGs, and those are all Napa Valley wines, although you know from different corners of the valley. And then we have three kinds of superstar wines, which are the wines that you'll be talking about, of the New California movement represented here as well, by Brock Ellsworth and Harmeyer. And we're going to tackle these kinds of varietal by varietal. So, I'm gonna give a little background on California as a place that makes wine more broadly and then speak to these individual varietals. And then, you know, we're going to, you know, Eric and I kind of trade, you know, shots back and forth about each of these wines.

And essentially, you know, look for tasting notes, one from the other, and then Zoe will interject as she does so well throughout proceedings. As always, I encourage you to arm yourself with multiple glasses. I think it's a really informative way to taste, you know, being able to move back and forth from one to the next. And, you know, for the sake of these wines, I would say that most of the new school offerings, you know, are, you know, lower ABV, easier drinking, more acid-driven. Although, even you know, even the old school ones, you know, are elegant in and of their own right, because you know, we would never, you know, stand behind the apothecary of the world that we didn't believe in, that tasted more like cough syrup than they do like agricultural products.

So, they're all elegant, but you know, the new school wines tend to be a little more lifted and we'll start with those in the context of our tastings, then take it back in time for the sake of this tasting. But again, the order of operations is gonna be Zinfandel into Merlot, Merlot blending into, you know, the king of Bordeaux varietals, Cabernet Sauvignon. But we've given all of you a few moments. Thank you so much again for joining us. Just so that you are all aware, a portion of proceeds both from the sales at Domestique and the sales at Revout Hour go to the nonprofits, so others might eat. It is just like a block away from Domestique, isn't it, Eric? Yeah, it's right around... yeah, right around the corner.

And an amazing organization; they are dedicated to ending the cycle of homelessness and extreme poverty in the city. They describe themselves as an interfaith, community-based service organization. Exists to help and support residents of our nation's capital experiencing homelessness and poverty. They offer affordable housing counseling, addiction treatment, and job training to help provide the daily needs of, you know, at-risk individuals through donations of food, clothing, and healthcare. So very admirable work, certainly. And, you know, in the follow-up email, I'll post a link to their donations page if you all, you know, feel compelled to give more. I thank you all for, you know, indulging us in our continued kind of philanthropic vent. You know, it matters a lot to us that we are part and parcel of our community.

And at this point in time, you know, giving back as much as we invest in something as frivolous as wine and some is a charity that means a lot to our friends at Domestique and that, you know, I've experienced working with myself and I'm really thrilled to bring them into the loop. Without further ado, a bit of verse. This comes from Audrey Lorde. Audrey, badass, self-described black lesbian mother warrior poet. Fierce, amazing Audrey Lorde. This is a poem called Coal. I is the total black being spoken from the earth's inside. There are many kinds of open how a diamond comes into a knot of flame, how sound comes into a work. Colored by who pays for what for speaking. Some words are open like a diamond on glass windows, singing out within the crash of passing sun.

Then there are words like stapled wagers and appropriated book. Buy and sign and tear apart and come whatever wills, all chances, the stub remains. An ill-pulled tooth with a ragged edge. Some words live in my throat, breeding like adders. Other no sun, seeking like gypsies over. Some words live in my throat, breeding like adders. Other no sun, seeking like gypsies over. My tongue to explode through my lips like young sparrows bursting from the shell. Some words bedevil me. Love is a word, another kind of open. As a diamond comes into a knot of flame, I am black because I come from the earth's inside. Take my word for jewel in your open light. Audrey Lorde, one of my favorites, you know, that speaks to a really unique, you know, kind of personal, you know, experience, personal experience, you know, that has everything to do with Audrey's, you know, sexual identification, that has everything to do with her race and experience of, you know, this country.

But by the same token, I love the universal kind of experience of transformation that she speaks to there. And we're talking about California, which is our most important state for winemaking. Turns out nearly 90% of the wine that comes out of the country, much of it plonk, but much of it decidedly delicious. If California was a country, it would be the fourth largest wine producer. In the world, after the major continental troika of France, Spain, and Italy. There are many Californias, just as there is no one 'France', 'Spain', or 'Italy'. You know, the wine that comes out of the state has, you know, kind of many identities. And it is, you know, a massive state that's, you know, hugely diverse in terms of its, you know, individual terroirs. I love this map.

Share a link to it again in our recap. We're going to be focusing mostly on wines from the northern part of the world. We're going to be focusing mostly on the northern part of the state. But viticulture, as we know, it began in the southern recesses of the state. Spanish missionaries brought vines with them to California as they settled it. The first recorded plantings in the state date to 1683 at the Mission San Bruno. The father of California wine is one Spanish, you know, kind of monk, Junipero Serra. He is credited with planting thousands of vines at the San Juan Capistrano, you know, like the swallows, or as Dumb and Dumber would speak, the salmon of Capistrano, in 1783. But, you know, California viticulture doesn't really get going until after the gold rush.

So, in 1858, they discover gold. All these people come to California looking for gold. Most of them don't make any money, although the people provisioning them do. However, many of them, having failed to find gold, enter the winemaking business. And there's this huge boom in winemaking. Additionally, California is very much a land of immigrants at this early phase. Immigrants have a huge hand in the establishment of an early winemaking industry. You know, mostly Italians, but in the case of a lot of the vine material, a Hungarian as well, a gentleman named Agaston Hrathsi, established Buena Vista Winery, one of the first established in the state, brings hundreds of individual varietals over with him from the old world before the Civil War. Napa's first winery founded in 1868 by Prussian immigrant Charles Krug.

But although Napa has emerged as kind of like the modern, you know, kind of home of prestige winemaking, and you can see the Napa Valley here sandwiched just to the east of Sonoma, between the Myakamas Range and the Vaca Mountains. Napa was much more of an agricultural valley. Sonoma and the Central Coast were the home of winemaking in early boom times. California has a massive wine industry boom right after World War; rather, but enter Prohibition. And it takes, you know, literally a century for the winemaking industry to recover. In Sonoma in particular, you know, there aren't as many wineries in California until, you know, really the early aughts as there were when Prohibition kicked off. But in the intervening period, you do have some heroes. You do have some people carrying the torch for California wine.

One of my favorite stories is a Russian immigrant, Andrei Chelichev. It's a tough, tough name, but I have a headshot. Yeah, that is a tough one. Do you have a better handle on the pronunciation there, Eric, than I do? No, I butcher it every single time. Yeah, yeah. You know, but, you know, we love him. We love him nonetheless, Andrei. He is a Russian immigrant; he has a really fascinating story. So, he is a Russian aristocrat, and his father was a chief justice in Imperial Russia for the Tsar. And he fights for the White Russians, the royalists, in the Russian Civil War in the early 20s. He's left for dead on a Crimean battlefield in 1921, survives; he looks like a grand presence here.

He was lovingly referred to as a maestro, the dean of California wine by his peers. He's only 5'11". So, you know, shorter statured guy, but, you know, cast this huge shadow of the States winemaking, you know, kind of infrastructure, chiefly, you know, because he is hired, he's poached. He makes his way to France, eventually works at prestigious estates there but is poached by George Latorre. who had purchased B.U. in Rutherford, California, and makes his way to California to Napa in the late 30s, and he begins making wine. He really defines the style of early Napa cab. I like this. I'm quoting here from an article. This is written by John Bonnet. He says, in 1838, wine ornery George Latour, whose Boulot Vineyard in Napa's Rutherford had weather prohibition, making wines for the church, brought in French-trained winemaker André Chellichiff.

The private reserve Cabernet Sauvignon that Chellichiff made defined the valley's signature style, ancient American oak, and elegant, and with a California lushness, became the gold standard for the next few decades. So, you know, you have these lush wines that reflect a unique ripeness that's not, you know, possible in the old world, but they are elegant nonetheless and made kind of in the French image. Fast forward to the 80s and 90s, and California loses its way a bit. You know, we chase ripeness for its own sake, and the wines get extracted. And massive, and you know, start to taste a little too much like Tussin, and it becomes necessary for a new generation to react against, you know, this, you know, kind of movement toward a fruit at any cost.

And John Boisset equally defined that as a new California movement. So for the sake of our generational new school, old school divide here, I'm going to be addressing, you know, some of these cultish disciples. So, Chellichiff begat Joe Heitz, who is the founder of the Heitz wines that we're going to taste here. Heitz begat Robert Travers, who's the man behind Maia Wines. Robert Travers begat Lor Olds, who's the man behind Sky Vineyard. So this lineage there, and they all share some of the same kind of predispositions when it comes to their winemaking. The new California movement is, in some ways, a return to form; you know, a coming back to the elegance that these early European-trained vintners had. So, you know, there's a lot of value.

But in other ways, a break from the past, because, you know, they're looking at, you know, the tourist destination that's become of Napa, and they're saying, we want to look outside that zone. We want to look back to the historic home of viticulture in the States, Sonoma, the Central Coast, and find places where we can afford to purchase fruit, because it's too expensive on the valley floor and even in mountains. And we want to make wines that, you know, are drinkable, that we want to serve to our friends, that are affordable at under $30 a bottle, which, sadly, my flight was not the case. But Eric was making wines or providing wines for the masses at a more reasonable price point. Which brings us to Zinfandel.

Zinfandel is the American grape or thought to be the American grape. It has this hugely fascinating lineage. It actually originated, Zinfandel did, in Croatia and came thereafter to the southern heel of the boot in Italy. And they're known as Primitivo. And from southern Italy, originally came to the east coast, but then came to California thereafter and is essentially lost to history. It is, you know, or should be said, is, you know, so ubiquitous in California that widely thought that it must come from California itself. But, you know, sadly, we know that not to be the case these days. We know that originally it was actually a Croatian varietal. I have, you know, a lineage chart for you all here. It's kind of cool. Or I think it's kind of cool.

And again, more unpronounceable nomenclature here. Good luck with the Croatian there. Hopefully, we'll see you next time. We have, you know, some, you know, Slavic language speakers in the house who can help us with that. But Zinfandel is this much more dynamic grape than people would have you believe. There's a lot of really old source material. And we're going to kick it off with our California lesson with, you know, kind of the state grape, Zinfandel, and with the wine from Calaveras County. And we're going to kick it off with Craig Harmeyer's wine, which brings us into the Luberg. I've been dominating the mic talking about this particular offering. And you were really excited to feature this one for the sake of our lesson. You know, what excites me about this wine?

And, you know, tell the people a little bit about how it came to be. Yeah, so for me, I don't think you can have a conversation about California without talking about Zinfandel. That's what made me feel like it was really important to include it today. This one excites me because it's a completely different take on what you expect from Zinfandel, what we've been given as Zinfandel for the last 15, 20, 25 years. It's a departure from that while maintaining the heart and the soul of the grape itself. Going back to something that you mentioned earlier with Buena Vista Winery, there's actually a guy who acts as the Count of Buena Vista. He goes around and does like promotional stuff for the winery. It's the strangest wine dinner I've ever been a part of.

But I do have the Count of Buena Vista's signature. Does he serve wine? Is it like a sommelier dressed as Count of Buena Vista? No, he is not a sommelier. He's actually, I believe, he's the gentleman who owns it. Okay. He's a bit of an eccentric gentleman. But he goes around. He's got a cape and a walking stick. He's very, very out there. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. But I was happy that you brought that up because that just really triggered that memory in my mind, which also is related to Zinfandel. So Craig Harmeyer got started in 2008. And when I say this is a family vineyard, it really is a family vineyard. Him, his wife, his children; they all play a role within this, which I think is absolutely fantastic.

This fruit is coming from one of my favorite vineyard sites in California, actually the Rorick Heritage Vineyard, which is owned by Matthew Rorick but it was purchased by him in 2012. It's a vineyard site that's riddled like really, like covered with limestone. And it runs at about 2000 feet of elevation. And it just runs up as a beautiful kind of mountainside vineyard. And there's a huge diversity of grapes that are grown there. But it was originally planted to Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay, which is actually grown right there on those hillsides. But this Zinfandel comes from two blocks. Most of the fruit comes from the lower block, though some of it also comes from this one. This is an exciting, very vibrant take on Zinfandel. It undergoes a partial carbonic maceration.

And it's only called a partial carbonic maceration because they don't destem the fruit before putting it into the fermenter. They pour those kinds of on top and they pour them on bottom just to line the fermenter a bit. They do everything by hand in terms of overturning the cap until fermentation really gets kicking in. It's a seven-day maceration, which is going to explain the lighter color that you're going to see on this Zinfandel comparatively to the other one that we're going to taste today. I feel like the carbonic would explain some of the, you know, kind of thinner color as well. Yeah, absolutely. You have a lot of bright fruit when you get into this wine. But I think it still has a lot of the hallmarks of a Mountain Fruit Zinfandel.

You have that fresh blackberry, fresh blueberry quality to this wine. There is a bit of a light spice to this. You get a little sagey quality to this as well, to round out on that more herbaceous side. It's a really fantastic example. I think it's something that's drinkable on its own. I think you can do a lot of different things with this. It could be an ideal food pairing as well. But this is also a, you know, a newer take on a grape that we've been shown, you know, the extremes of what it could be. I know when I first got started working in restaurants, we had a a Zinfandel list and this was a fully California kind of themed restaurant. But we had a Zinfandel listed by the glass.

We had 12 Zinfandels by the glass. And I couldn't honestly tell you the difference between them. They were all, it was like the Blue Steel La Tigra, you know, they're, they only have one look kind of. Yeah. But I just like the way that, you know, we all are trained to kind of drink things or think certain things that we were given our own notions or other people's preconceived notions about grapes. And I think that this is kind of a show that you could do something different with something and make it more redeemable, just as you could do something that actually worked before and it's equally as redeemable. But this is just such a fun and fascinating take on Zinfandel for me, with the liveliness, the freshness, the brightness, the adaptability, and the fact that the alcohol is under 12%.

Yeah. It feels like I've been, you know, kind of when I try ones like this, I feel like I've been mis-sold Zinfandel. It's like, you know, where, why people have been keeping this Zinfandel away from me, you know, for, for my whole life. And, you know, I think; you know, some grapes, you know, they; you know, they are variously, you know, kind of; you know, kind of more, you know, kind of softer, louder versions of themselves as they ripen. But, you know, I think with Zin in particular, the fruit goes to very different places. So, you know, this has almost a strawberry-like balsamic kind of quality to it. And, and; you know, Zin as it ripens; you know, just gets the quality of fruit; you know, gets; you know, a lot darker; a lot deeper; you know, prunier and; you know, richer.

And, and, you know, the, the identifiable fruit is just like, you know, licorice-like, and just hugely different than, you know, Zinfandel as it exists at 12% alcohol in a really like fun kind of dynamic way. And I think that you run into a lot of issues with Zinfandels at around this alcohol percentage, because a lot of them aren't, aren't ripe at all, which is really off-putting because it's, you know, it's - I understand what people are trying to get to - but I feel like they were able to let this hang long enough to get ripe enough to sit in the sun long enough that you extracted enough fruit, so it's not underripe, it's not bitter, it's not pithy, it's not super green.

And I think that's a really fine balancing act that - that they're playing with here. And I think they've executed it quite well. Awesome. So we are going to move on to Napa Valley wine, but this is almost like kind of the, the anti-Napa Valley, Napa Valley wine. So Skye Vineyards is the creation of Lore Olds, which sounds like some kind of like mythical, you know, Norse god, Lore Olds, but he worked at Hewlett Cellars, which we're going to be addressing forthrightly. He actually worked at Beaulieu as well, which was Clos Pegase's original – I apologize to André's descendants for butchering his name throughout this lesson. I'm doing the best that I can, guys. I'm sorry. I should have worked harder at proper pronunciation for the sake of this lesson.

But Lore Olds has since the early seventies been making wine his own way in, you know, a cartoonishly beautiful corner of Napa Valley and he's high on Mount Veeder. So Eric spoke to the elevation for the vineyards in Calaveras County, which is essentially in the Sierra foothills. You are, you know, along with Atlas Peak here, at Mount Veeder, you know, two of the highest points in the Napa Valley. And, you know, how could you not call this Vineyard Skye? And, you know, how could you not want to settle here? And, you know, it puts the lie to the notion that, you know, there are no elegant wines in Napa. Napa is pretty much more diverse in terms of the quality of wines that are coming out of Napa County, in particular.

And Skye is kind of at the bottom here. You can see barely in Napa at the top, you know, Sky and then we're going to consider Mount Comus, high on the slopes of Mount Veeder, you know, kind of are so far off the beaten path, up dirt roads that they're really sufficiently at a remove from everybody else in the valley floor, that they don't necessarily share the same lineage, you know, they're kind of in conversation with one another. But, you know, they're not necessarily cut from the same cloth. And people, you know, talk a lot about, you know, mountain fruit in the valley versus benchland fruit. So, mountain fruit is the stuff that comes from, you know, in the slopes of Mount Veeder, you know, higher elevation, whereas, you know, the benchland fruit is the stuff that comes from lower elevation.

But a lot of volcanic soils here. You know, I love this wine because, again, it has a sense of freshness to it. So, it's cooler. There's not as much diurnal shift, fascinatingly enough, in this point of the valley. So, you're above the fog. So, you know, there's no fog to burn off. So, somewhat, you know, counterintuitively, you know, it's cold in the morning, but it also doesn't get quite as hot, you know, during the day. And you have a much longer protericid growing season, which is good for developing fruit that is fully ripe at a lower ABV. And that's what you're seeing here. And you're seeing this, like, hugely fascinating herbal leaf, for the sake of this wine.

The wines actually, you know, and I think it's important to say, too, that, you know, wine is always this kind of moving, you know, target. It's a dynamic living thing, you know, in terms of what goes into the bottle, but in terms of who makes it, in terms of the life of an estate. And especially in a place like Napa, where, you know, consulting winemakers will, you know, trade jobs, you know, from one vintage to the next. You know, sometimes wine from the same brand can be, you know, unrecognizable, you know, a few years apart because the consultant winemaker changed. And, you know, for the sake of a wine like this, you know, you have, you know, this, you know, kind of legend in laurels, but he, you know, split from you know, kind of, you know, they lost a bit.

And, you know, they were not as good for the early aughts. But fortunately, his daughter, who's UC Davis trained, and is named Maya Kamas, just amazing. He named his fucking daughter after the mountain range. That's awesome. That would be, I feel like, I would, I don't know what I would be named. I'd probably be named Potomac or something like that, which is kind of a cool name. I could, I could get into that. But at any rate, she has a master's in fermentation science from UC Davis, and has really restored the quality of the wines. And, you know, I think they're, I think they're really stunning. And I think it's kind of cool to taste these side by side, because, you know, they kind of have this shared DNA.

But, you know, there is a ripeness to this wine. You know, it's very different quality from Herrmeier. Let's see, Zoe, do you have any thoughts on this one tasting at home? I absolutely love it. I think that it's, again, just as surprising as the Zinnas. I've been tasting California wines; I have a stereotype in my head, and it's not like that at all. It's very high-toned, it's much more light, I can taste food with it. It's much more layered, and it's not just bombastic or overpowering. I have fun tasting those from a few others who think, like, it has, like, a little bit of that dark raspberry and strawberry and balsamic, kind of like you were saying on the Zinne as well. But then also having a little bit more, like, reciprocity and naturalness to it.

Yeah, and Eric, you spoke to just kind of, like, the menthol character in this wine. You know, what do you think about it? Yeah, I thought that was super cool. And with this wine, and comparatively, you could just see the care that's taken in making these wines. With the Sky, they are able to achieve this balance and this elegance in a wine that's fuller-bodied, that's a little bit more rich, has a little bit more alcohol in it. So, yeah, I think it's a really good wine. I think it's a really good wine. It's got a little bit more alcohol to it, but they're able to really make all that work, and everything kind of blends together in a really harmonious way. It's a really fantastic wine. I'm really, really impressed by it.

Yeah, and I think you get a sense, you know, just for the sake of the winemaking, too, the Harmer feels more like one to savor. You know, it's more like, you know, fresh, easy drinking. Maybe, you know, it's got a few years in the bottle, but, you know, it's very much like a pizza wine, you know, that you kind of want to enjoy within a few years of the vintage. But, you know, I think the; I'd love to see, this is 2014. It’s at 14% alcohol. I would never fucking guess it was at 14% alcohol, which is a hallmark, you know, of good winemaking. And, you know, I’m hugely curious to see where it goes, you know, 10 years; 10 years since.

And, you know, I think, again, what I love about it is, I think, I just love, I love Zinfandel. I think, you know, well made. It goes to a lot of really interesting places that, you know, Bordeaux varietals don’t go to. You know, it reveals its; you know, Italian. I think of it as an Italian grape, even though it is actually Croatian. But, you know, something about it just feels more, you know, of the earth. Something about it feels more primal than, you know, the Bordeaux varietals are capable of. And I really, I really enjoy that about it. So, do you have any questions? Eric, it looks like you're capable of, like, rubbing your belly and patting your head and participating in chat at the same time. I've been doing Zoom classes and things.

I've been doing Zoom classes and things. I've been doing things like that for the better part of the last 13 months. So, I've got a lot of practice. I mean, I have too, but I get to master it. It's, you know, it's just, it's fortune, you know. I'm fortunate. Fair enough. Zoe, do you have any thoughts from the commentary or questions about the Zins that we first tackled? Yeah, absolutely. The Zin has this, like, burnt rubber, like, really, like, flashy kind of flavor. Going on, could you elaborate a little bit more about that minerality on the Zin? I think, I think the, I think that's true of the sky more than it is of the, the Hermeyer. You know, I think that, you know, that, I don't know what to attribute that to.

I mean, you could say volcanic soil. I actually mostly think about that in terms of vine age, you know. So, kind of a fun, a little, you know. So, a California is a very dry place in particular, very dry place. But, you know, I feel really passionately about dry farming as an important, you know, expression of a place. Dry farming, just this notion that you shouldn't irrigate. And in the context of this lesson, I thought this was a really fun, you know, little thing to share. So, this is an example of two different sets of grapes, one dry farmed and one irrigated. So, you can see the dry farmed bit on the left there. Smaller berries, less juice, much more skin contact for the must.

And you can imagine, you're by not irrigating, giving up all sorts of yield. So, you know, you're getting a lot more juice out of your, you know, grapes from vineyards that have been irrigated than, than ones, you know, that haven't. But you get a lot more character out of the, the non, you know, kind of irrigated blocks and wine. And for me, you know, in this mountain, mountain fruit in particular, you know, as you hit up, go to, go up in elevation, you're, you see additional UV exposure. So, the grape skins are thicker. And I think that savoriness has everything to do with that, you know, smaller, smaller berries, you know, more skin contact. To some extent, volcanic soil, but it's; Mount Beeder is really; there's limestone up there, there's a little bit of everything.

So, and I don't know much about the, you know, particular aspect of Scott Vineyards. So, a lot of people say volcanic soils as a default when it comes to questions like that, but I don't want to fall back on that. I think; I think it's more about old vines and you don't see a lot of plantings from the early seventies, which is the case with a lot of Scott Vineyards fruit. Yeah. I think you get a lot of that character from, from, you know, just the phenolic character characteristics of having those thicker skins as well. You just get a lot more development. You get a lot more of that, that what comes off as like an ashiness almost, that I really enjoy.

And I find that just from that, that's that quality of fruit and especially with those thicker skins on it. And perhaps feeling the tannins and getting that like chalkiness, it's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It helps that associative memory to be able to get it to like, I love pushing Connor, if I can put you on the spot, Kristen Dunn scrolling out the room being like, it tastes like ashes! But moving on, on the Heights Cabernet, if I can just pop there just because I think it's related, that some guests are talking about more of a petrol-like nose to it, where we would usually see that in white wines. Could you elaborate a little bit more about that? We'll get there. We'll get there.

Yeah, I promise we'll get there. I think that's a place that Cabernet Sauvignon goes to at times. That could be an élevage thing for the sake of new oak, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Next up, though, let's consider a couple Merlots. We're moving into Bordeaux varietal territory here for the sake of the Merlots. Dan, Paul Giamatti, and the Sideways people would have you believe, for whatever reason, that Merlot is some morally debased grape that is not worth our consideration and worth our love, but Merlot has much to recommend. I think I've said in the past that Merlot just wants to party. Merlot is just fun. It's accessible. It's approachable. It can go to really profound places. It just wants to be kind of lush and there for you.

 It actually needs a lot of water by grape standards to properly ripen. It's very sensitive to individual, you know, kinds of sites. And, you know, equally, it doesn't always, you know, kind of set fruit reliably. It's kind of a pain he has to work with at times. But it's equally useful because it produces a shit ton of sugar and softer tannins than Cabernet Sauvignon does. And, you know, for that reason, it's kind of Poncagouine.

It shows up in a ton of blends, so you're probably drinking more Merlot um in general than you know you're drinking it's just not labeled Merlot um. And I think it's one of those wines that everybody likes um, you know. But you know the second you throw uh the grape name in the mix, they're afraid to like it. So um, you know it is, you know. And I think we finally circled back on Merlot where we can like embrace it for the sake of hipster contrarianism, and I'm excited about that. Um, which kind of brings us to our first wine, which I'm irrationally excited about because it comes from a pair of uh good friends I cut my teeth at um uh Washington D.C.'s premier Neapolitan pizza bar, Two Amy's, and this comes from a pair of uh two Amy's um uh grads.

Kick it Eric yes, so Bryn Molloy and Jeffrey Sherwood uh are well, you know, for lack of a better term, you know, locals. Here in D.C. Uh, restaurant people, good folks uh who got to know and got to work under Gideon Bynestock from close Saran uh, and with a deep love of the Loire Valley, a deep love of Chen Blanc uh, and a ton of knowledge from an extraordinary winemaker, they were able to set out on their own um in just inside of their their uh, based in Placerville uh, but they're sourcing fruit uh from Yuba County, from Nevada County uh. And on this wine, this is a super cool, super interesting take on Merlot or a Merlot blend uh, because I like to think that Merlot exists best with Cabernet Sauvignon.

I think those are two things that really play well with one another. I think that Merlot personally makes Cabernet Sauvignon a hundred times better uh when it's done well uh, but this is going to be 75 percent Merlot uh, 20 percent Cabernet Sauvignon, and five percent Cabernet Franc uh, so a fairly traditional, almost right bank uh style blend uh, if you will uh. A really cool thing about it: 50 of this is going to be direct press Rosé uh, and then the other 50 of that is going to be whole cluster fruit. So the fruit that they source from Yuba uh, the Merlot that's sourced from Yuba uh, is going to be the direct press Merlot, and then the fruit that comes from Nevada County is going to be the Whole cluster, that's going to see roughly six months in an old large neutral barrel, um, and it's it's absolutely fantastic, um, in terms of what I thought you could do with Merlot.

Because, I'm already very high on Merlot. Merlot is one of my personal favorite grapes, um. I don't love that people shit on Merlot all the time, because there are a lot of times when I was working in restaurants and I would often, you know, offer people, you know, something like, 'Oh, this is fantastic! It's like oh, it's Merlot.' Uh, thank you very much, Trefethen. Uh, I appreciate you doing that for me, um, but it's, as Bill said, it's Super versatile, and this is just another example of that. You get some really nice, bright fruit on this. It's dry, it's absolutely just a a crushable take on this uh super fresh wine. This is something that you could pop in the refrigerator for you know 15-20 minutes before you're going to drink it, uh I don't think that have any adverse effects on it.

It might you know just really freshen that up again and make it more of a crisp, glue-like style, uh I do still think this wine has a little bit of stuffing, a little bit of complexity to it, a little bit of backbone, uh and I think that's really impressive coming from them because this is their debut. Vintage, uh, and you you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't often see that kind of nuance from people and in their first vintage, uh, which really goes to speak to the quality of the fruit that they're harvesting, uh, and really goes to speak to the talent they have as individuals, uh. I would love to know your thoughts on this bill, um.

I-I dig it, you know? It's impossible for me to be like wholly, um, objective about this one just because, um, you know, I love them, and you know, want to root for them. I didn't know that bit about the direct press; totally makes sense in tasting the wine um you know I think it does what I want Merlot to do which is it's just Joyful you know um there's you know a view of volumes to this and you know it does you know the French have a lot of different words for that you know they'll say glue glue they say go your lawn they say classier you know it just it just embraces this you know whole style of you know wine is a part of the fabric of the table part of the fabric of the meal something that you can you know share a bottle of and you know not feel like death about um uh for me it equally falls into the kind of matter-of-factly um you know because it's it's not flawed You know, clearly they're adding enough sulfur that you know there's not a rodent crawling out of the bottle. Um, you know which is which is important and you can't take for granted, uh, and um, you know the acidity of it excites me, you know. I think it would, you know, age surprisingly well for a few years and go into like a more interesting kind of savory um place, and then you know it makes me think, you know, further about um the way I think a lot of Americans think about varietal wines, so I think there's just no notion that you know wines are somehow debased um through becoming blends.

You know, like somehow like there's intellectual purity to making 100 more low as opposed to debasing it with like cap cap sob and and you know cap bronc in the mix but you know there's a reason that you know there are three legs to the Bordeaux stool in the old world you know they complement one another and you know even a lot of the varietal lines that we take for granted that are labeled as such they're you know there and you know I love what each brings to the party and you know for the sake of this wine it wouldn't be as you know multi-faceted it wouldn't have the stuffing that you spoke to without that you know ample addition of cap sob in the mix um you know uh and and you know that's just that's like the little spice you know for the sake of you know that you know Merlot you know or bullions um and it needs that and you know like you said I think I think that speaks to you know a level of sophistication uh for the sake of first-time winemakers that we were and and you know pretty uh pretty awesome and you know I think also you know the Sierra foothills we we get a lot of questions about um you know global warming here and and you know it is one of those regions that while the Napa Valley withers and you know um struggles with um you know water in particular um as a resource you know the Sierra foothills Are you going to be a place where winemakers increasingly look to, you know, make you know wine grow grapes, um, because you know there is margin there and you know if you can't go north then you can go up, um, and yeah I think there's a cool adaptability in the the thought processes of a lot of people who are making wine there already that are planting more you know climate change resistant grape varieties; they're starting to look into what the future is going to look like as these sorts of changes start to happen.

Totally, totally, and you know that I think they're calling it in the air, for, and you know a lot of the decisions. I mean the decisions that you make in the vineyard you know, they take a decade or two to, you know, ultimately, you know, bear, you know, fruit as it were. And, you know, so you do have to be incredibly forward thinking as a vigneron, especially at a moment of, you know, really unprecedented, you know, geoclimactic change. You know, nobody has ever in, you know, the history of our species seen anything like, you know, the rate of, you know, change on the ground for the sake of vintage to vintage, you know, weather pattern, you know, differences that we are seeing and will continue to see.

And so, you know, I think people who this generation, the new Californians, you know, they're really grappling with that. And I think it's, you know, it's important to address, you know, because wine doesn't exist in a vacuum, certainly. And, you know, it's also, I think it's kind of cool because it's very much a blast from the past. So, you know, the same 49ers that made their way to the Sierra foothills to make, to find their fortune in gold, you know, they planted a shit ton of grapes there. You know, there was a huge, you know, wine industry in the Sierra foothills that died off during prohibition has never recovered. And, you know, so a lot of people are returning to their, those historic vineyards now.

And, you know, or at least those historic, you know, plots of land and, you know, rediscovering them. So I like that, you know, kind of part of the story for, um, a lot of these younger, um, winemakers that is about, you know, um, perpetuating this kind of forgotten California history. Yes. Um, which brings us to, um, uh, like one of the, you know, kind of foremost, um, you know, Napa wineries, uh, such as it is, um, uh, my commas. Um, so I'm going to pull up the map, um, again, uh, my commas, uh, synonymous with the range synonymous, um, with Laura's, uh, daughter. Um, is an estate that was founded by a German pickle Baron. Uh, what an amazing job title, German pickle Baron.

Um, I wish he had like an Instagram handle now at German pickle Baron, but at any rate, uh, that was John Henry Fisher founded my commas, 1889, um, made wine for a while. Um, he called it quits after the 1906 earthquake, um, auctioned off the, uh, winery, yada, yada, yada, uh, purchased, uh, by, uh, Robert Bob Travers. Uh, in 1968 and his family. Um, and, uh, he's kind of the hero of our story, uh, Bob Travers, because he's making wine, um, you know, starting in the late sixties, uh, from mountain fruit, um, and it's like lovably old fashioned style. Uh, before I forget, uh, my commas has a really cool logo. Um, uh, the name of the estate, um, uh, comes from, uh, a, um, American Indian word on the WAPO language, uh, um, thought to mean the how, the howl of the mountain line, uh, which is just really cool.

The howl of the mountain line. I love that. Um, uh, and they have a pretty badass logo. Um, that is the, that's the, my commas logo. Um, uh, at any rate, uh, my commas is synonymous with, um, this mountain style of, um, uh, you know, kind of Napa, uh, wine, uh, chiefly, um, Cabernet Sauvignon, um, uh, uh, but also Merlot, um, defined by, um, lower alcohol levels, higher acidities and, uh, more prominent tannins, and zero, no new oak usage. Um, and, you know, that's a, a style that, uh, Bob Travers, um, you know, found great success with. Um, Bob has subsequently sold his winery, fascinatingly enough, sold to, in 2013, um, the, uh, one of the former owners of Screaming Eagle.

I cannot think of more different wines than my Cabas, my Cab, uh, Cab Franc and Screaming Eagle, um, uh, and installed, um, his, uh, uh, winemaker, um, uh, you know, to produce, uh, the wines here, who's actually like a, a awesome, hugely, uh, fascinating, um, uh, dude, um, at any rate. Um, and, uh, what's kind of cool, uh, you know, to me about this whole, um, you know, progression, um, uh, so is that, you know, you have former Screaming Eagle, um, you know, kind of owner making wine now at this historic estate that is acclaimed for more elegant, you know, tannic, age-worthy styles of wine is that Andy Erickson on the left here, um, has really respected that history.

And he has, you know, kind of, um, had this like road to Damascus moment with, you know, these old fashioned styles of wine where he doesn't want to make the same wine he was making for tech millionaires in the early aughts. He wants to make wines consistent with the wines that were made, historically, at my Cabas. So he's not adding new oak to these wines. You know, he's certainly not manipulating them. Um, he's harvesting earlier than he would for, you know, his, his projects on the valley floor. Um, he makes one with his wife, um, who's an equally talented vineyard manager, but, um, you know, he's respecting the tradition and, you know, he is making wine in the spirit of this historic estate, um, in a way that, you know, you wouldn't necessarily think of for a new world winery.

Um, you have the Merlot here, um, which I think is enjoyable. Um, I equally enjoy this one because, um, I love basketball and, uh, the NBA is a wine league. Um, and, uh, none other than LeBlanc. Um, and, uh, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, LeBron James actually had his birthday party at, um, uh, my Cabas, which is totally cool to me. Uh, but, uh, the Merlot is lovably old fashioned. Um, no, uh, new oak speak of initial, um, fermentation in cement, uh, followed by 30 months, um, in like big ass fooder. Some are like Redwood, um, you know, uh, derived, um, dating, you know, from a century ago. Um, you know, the kind of winemaking you would see traditionally in the old world, um, I think.

Um, this, you know, purely distinctly Napa Valley, you know, kind of, uh, character to the Merlot that, you know, is unmistakable, but not, you know, morally debased, um, at all. Uh, Eric, uh, have you had much my Cabas Merlot, um, in your, um, you know, drinking past as a song? Yeah, I, I love these wines. These are, these are a personal favorite, you know, I call them like a holdover from, from my song days, but these are wines that I always really look forward to drinking. Uh, whether it was, you know, something like this, you know, or their Cabernet where these are, I don't want to call them restrained because that's not what they are, but they, they're just really beautiful, like pure examples of, of old school Napa wine making.

Uh, it's a style that I truly admire. It's why when I, I, you know, seek out, you know, when I go to look for California wine and I'm really in that kind of mood, I sort of tend to look for older bottles just because I appreciate that style. Yeah. Um, but what they've done here is really continue to emulate that and really, you know, kind of work in a, in a, in a way that, that lets the, the wine speak for what it is as opposed to who the winemaker is. Uh, and I think that's really brilliant. Yeah. And I think that requires, you know, from a winemaker, you know, who are, you know, these like, you know, uh, anointed, you know, gods of the cellar, you know, a level of humility that is really, you know, important.

Um, and, you know, speaks to one of my favorite French expressions, which was, you know, 'A winemaker makes no more makes a wine than a gardener makes a flower.' Um, and, you know, I think, you know, you, you feel that sense of restraint in these wines, you know, it's, it's not that they don't taste like California, you know, you, you, I mean, I guess there's some, there's some right bank where does it taste way more California than this, but, but, you know, uh, there, there is this, you know, uh, you know, lushness, um, it tastes like Merlot. It, it, you know, it tastes, you know, full and, you know, there's blackberry, there's cassis, you know, there's, there's like layer of spice. It's not attributable to oak.

It's just the grapes themselves, you know, that, that, um, you know, is, uh, available, um, and, you know, really pleasurable. Um, but, you know, there is this like, you know, really like raging acid there as well. And, and it's why it's not afraid of tannins because tannins are, tannins are good, you know, great. Yeah, yeah, um, so do we have any questions about the Merlot, uh, double down? Not necessarily about Merlot, but Eric, everyone is very jealous about your wine classes. Um, what are they and what type of wine glasses do you recommend for like an average drinker versus like a fancy person like yourself? Uh, I am not a fancy person; I shouldn't be, I say facetiously. Uh, sorry, grabbing glassware.

So I don't know what these are called, but these are like the glasses that we have at Domaine, which are, you know, the kind of the typical glasses you would see at any like trendy French wine bar. Uh, and I love having these because they're virtually indestructible. Uh, Eric, those are like the smaller ones too, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love that in Paris. Like you get, you do get like, uh, it holds like a, you know, usually they'll get like a short, you'll get like a short pour. You'll get like a three and a half ounce pour. Yeah. But it's, but it's like kind of, okay. I don't know why it's okay. It just feels okay. And it causes me to drink more. It tells me to try more stuff.

You feel superhuman, you know, it's like I finished glasses and I feel nothing running down the street. Um, and then I have an accidental glass purchase. So we, we have the shot Swiss soul, uh, sense of white wine glass, but I accidentally ordered the tasting version, uh, which I actually really like because again, this keeps me in check and it prevents me from over serving. And then this was, the full-size version, version of that universal glass, uh, from Spiegelau. And so I recommend all of these because I mean, these were not expensive wine glasses by any stretch of the imagination. Um, and they're pretty durable, uh, and they make me feel fancy, even though I'm a garbage person. Uh, Eric, doesn't, uh, don't you have a, like an endorsement deal yet?

Can we, can we help you kind of like further that, uh, you know, we're, we're going to slow play this. Um, I'm just gonna, I'm going to make sure that I I'm slowly on their radar. So it's coming to me. Uh, I don't want, I don't want to feel too, too thirsty here. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't want to be like the needy, like teenage boyfriend, you know, coming after Scott's weasel. No, and that's, you know, it's, it's the opposite of who I am because I am a needy, needy, I think Eric, I think we're all the needy teenagers. Um, uh, what else you guys have? We're just wondering if you could do a quick recap about dry farming.

Um, there were still a few little questions about, um, exactly why you would choose to irrigate as opposed to dry farm. Um, yields, um, reliability. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, irrigation, um, yeah, it, it increases, you know, the amount of fruit. I, I think like, I like that image because the proof is in the pudding. You got a sense of how swollen those berries were and how much juice you could produce out of them. Um, you know, uh, vines will shut down. Um, you know, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, you know, I, I don't want to say that like, um, irrigation is evil full stop because, you know, there are instances in which drought conditions are such that, you know, um, you know, a little drippier there means the difference between, you know, vine death and, you know, a, um, a, a, a harvestable crop of grapes.

Um, but, uh, by the same token, I think if it's something that you are relying on as a crutch vintage in and vintage out, maybe grapes shouldn't be growing there in the first place, you know, like, uh, that, that's the place I go to. Um, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, that's not a renewable natural resource that, you know, um, we can, we can rely upon as water tables drop. And, and, and so, um, yeah, I mean, that's my take Eric, do you have a take? Uh, no, I mean, I mean, I just think that, you know, obviously you want to go for more quality if fine winemaking is, is what you're after. So I think dry farming is more beneficial there. Uh, you're finding you're struggling more, they're reaching deeper for that water table.

Uh, you're getting higher quality, higher concentration fruit. Um, I, I think that, you know, if you're looking for, to produce as much as possible, then the irrigation is fine. And again, I agree with you that it's not this evil thing, but I think that for the most part, um, if you're, if you're working, you know, smaller plots, you're not working as much land. I think that's just kind of the obvious way to go. Um, a lot of it too will have to do with the age of vines. So, um, after you first plant vines need water and even, you know, vignerons that actively dry farm, you know, within the first, you know, a couple of leaves of new plantings will give a little water, um, so that the vines don't shrivel up and die.

Um, older vines are hardier, you know, they seem more, you know, they don't get phased as easily. Did the droughts in California affect the way that, um, winemakers made wine? Um, do you believe that now more than ever there's dry farming in California, or is that a result of us just as a culture moving towards more sustainable practices? I don't, I don't want to, I mean, I think there, I think it's increasingly important to people. I hesitate to speak to like broader California wine industry trends just because I'm not as plugged into that scene as I would like. And I think the larger industry trends happen more with wines that I would never want to serve than with the kind of wines that, you know, I actively seek out.

Um, but by the same token, I think people are increasingly aware of water vis-a-vis agriculture, vis-a-vis wine as a limited natural resource that they have to actively manage. Um, I don't know, Eric, thoughts? No, exactly that. I, I don't think that anything that, that you or I would be speaking about, uh, is entirely caught up in that, that broader trend or, or broader kind of scope of what's happening there. Uh, it's, so I, you know, I don't think that producers that, that we are, are not looking at are, are necessarily changing what they do if it's working. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. So here's to cutting you off. We have two more wines to cover. Um, and, uh, and then I want to shamelessly plug some domestiques up.

So, um, Capsol is the king of Bordeaux varietals. Incidentally, it is a half, half, uh, sibling of, um, uh, the, uh, Merlot grape. So, um, Cab Franc is the shared, uh, you know, uh, baby mama, baby daddy, if you will, uh, Merlot, uh, other, um, uh, kind of, um, you know, a parent is, uh, Magdalene, uh, Noir de Chirons from Brittany. Um, uh, more famously Capsop is, uh, the offspring of Cab Franc and Savivy, Savivy, uh, ripens later. Um, it likes drier feet. Uh, it likes, um, uh, it is much more drought resistant than Merlot. Um, and I think it's, it's a little more linear, you know. I think it just kind of is. I mean, it can be a little more herbal in some places than others, and you know, maybe the quality of fruit changes a little bit.

But Cab just kind of feels like Cab, you know, no matter, no matter where it goes. Um, but that said, um, you know, uh, you know, I, I love it nonetheless. And, you know, especially when, you know, done well, um, with, you know, a, a sense of, of restraint, um, you know, can be really lovely, um, super fun wine. So, a couple here, uh, um, Eric, you, uh, you guys chose to share with us a wine from one of the foremost kind of new California winemakers, the urban winemaker par excellence, uh, Brock Sellers. Yes. Uh, on top of being a absolutely fantastic vineyard on, uh, Chris Brockway is probably the nicest person that you will meet in the wine world. Uh, extraordinarily thoughtful person.

it makes it so much easier to talk about, to sell his wines. Um, and it's one of my favorite things that we do. Uh, Chris has influenced and chooses to influence a number of younger winemakers coming through. Uh, and he, I mean, he's just a wealth of knowledge and an absolutely fantastic resource to have. Uh, we were fortunate enough to have him in town. I don't know what time is anymore, but, uh, I think it was two years ago. Uh, I believe, uh, it was my birthday, uh, but I was hammered. So that'll happen.

Um, but he was in and we, uh, we were just kind of discussing wine and kind of his philosophy on wine. And he, he really wants to make drinkable wines, but he also wants to make wines that, that feel classic while taking, uh, an approach to winemaking. That's, you know, obviously a little less interventional. Uh, this is a bottling that he does exclusively, exclusively, exclusively for selection myself. Uh, this is going to be mostly Cabernet Sauvignon, uh, 95% Cabernet Sauvignon, uh, coming from Southeast, the Southeastern corner of Napa Valley, um, in Solano County, uh, Green Valley. This is coming from the Worth Ranch Vineyard. Uh, this is a vineyard that was planted in the late forties. Uh, Cabernet was planted a little shortly after in the early fifties.

Um, the, it's been in the same family that entire time, uh, they've been farming organically the entire time. Uh, and it's a relationship that he has kind of cultivated over the years. He also makes a Zinfandel, uh, speaking of California's grape, kind of tying this all together. Uh, but he also makes a Zinfandel from the same vineyard site. Uh, this is one of my favorite wines because he adds in a little bit of Carignan, uh, because why not? And that Carignan happens to come from the vineyard site, uh, and vines that are 145 years old in Alexandria. Uh, and he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, uh, the most impressive part of that to me is that those vines were not turned into something else over the last 145 years.

Uh, that little bit of Carignan that goes into this is going to undergo carbonic maceration because it's natural wine. Why not? Um, no, I'm kidding. Uh, it just, uh, this is a picture, this is a picture of Bert's vineyard. I actually love this site. Uh, there's some Riesling that comes off of it. It's a, it's a really cool plot of land. And, and I think people underestimate the extent to which there is this like wealth of old vine material, um, in California. And I think a lot of the young guns are tapping into that and are in a really awesome way. And I think there's a, a respect, um, for, you know, these parcels that survived, you know, centuries of intrigue and prohibition and, you know, various, you know, vagaries of fashion in the wine world and still exist to this day.

Yeah, man, I gotta - I really need to get back to California. Really dropping the ball on traveling. I wonder why. But, uh, this is a wine that's going to be fermented in open-top stainless steel vessels. It'll see 10 months in neutral French, 60-gallon old barrels, uh, that Carignan is blended in towards the end. Um, and it - it's such an approachable take on Cabernet Sauvignon. Uh, it still has structure. It still has tannin. It still has a nice balance of acidity. It still has ripe fruit, uh, that isn't quite, you know, going into that black fruit. Uh, it's, you know, nice, ripe, fresh red fruit, which is highly enjoyable. Uh, this is a wine that's again, versatile. Uh, you could do anything with this wine. I, personally, want to eat burgers with this wine.

That would be my, my favorite use for this. Uh, but I also. It's a little bloody too. There's something a little bloody about it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I believe that all wines should be able to be paired with handheld foods just for simplicity. Yeah. You can make everything fancy. Or I feel like, I also feel like there should be a handheld version of everything. Like, I want...like, um, brain, sir. So, uh, we're going to tackle a Heights next Heights, um, iconic, uh, Napa Valley, uh, property, um, founded by this gentleman, uh, Joe Heights, uh, who was, uh, an Andrei Telichev, um, disciple just to bring it full circle. Um, and, uh, he struck out on his own, uh, bought some land. Um, he is on the Vaca side of the Valley and that's significant.

So not only were we at elevation for the sake of the Myklamas fruit, uh, but we were facing, um, uh, East. I don't know what way I'm facing here. The North East would be, we're facing, this is a terrible, anyway, this means nothing to anyone. Um, but anyway, we're facing East, uh, for the sake of, uh, the Myklamas range. Um, which means you get the morning sun, which is gentler, um, and the wine tend to be more elegant. On the Vaca side, you're facing West. You get the, the hot, uh, scorching afternoon sun and the wines on that side of the Valley, uh, tend to, uh, reflect that. Uh, fast forward, um, the Heights family, and, and again, you know, the Heights winery, um, you know, throughout, you know, uh, you know, several decades, very much like the Harmeyer, you know, a family affair.

Um, but, you know, that runs its course, um, and a, uh, an Arkansas agricultural, uh, billionaire, um, uh, intervenes, uh, Galen M. Lawrence Jr. Um, uh, but, uh, for our sake in DC, what's cool is, uh, Galen, um, as, you know, uh, agricultural billionaires are want to do, he's in Aspen, at the Little Nail, um, uh, a Washington DC restaurant veteran, uh, Carlton Coymexum, and, uh, Carlton, who's one of three, black master somms, um, in, uh, the country, um, comes to take control of, uh, he's also like a really handsome man. It's kind of unfair, uh, but this is, this is Carlton.

Uh, he formerly, uh, worked, um, uh, with, uh, Andy Meyer, um, Eric Zeebold, um, at City's End, um, but then, you know, went off, um, did, you know, other things and, uh, landed a pretty sweet gig at Heights. Um, and, you know, is, you know, kind of the, this rare, um, representative of, um, you know, uh, kind of, you know, a person of color, um, in, uh, Napa making wine. There are a few, um, you know, and, and fortunately those ranks are growing. Um, you know, we featured some wines from Brown Estate, uh, they make awesomes in, um, but, you know, historically, obviously, uh, you know, the wine world has been pretty lily white and bastions of privilege.

And, um, you know, just to bring it full circle, one of my favorite things about Domestique is, uh, that, you know, one of their core, uh, missions, uh, is to, uh, blow that all up and, uh, make, uh, the wine world, um, a more diverse and inclusive, uh, you know, kind of, kind of place. Uh, for the sake of the Heights, we will get to, I promise, this whole Petroli thing, um, in good time. I just want to shamelessly plug, um, some of the, uh, work that, uh, Domestique is doing, um, you know, for, uh, the sake of the major television industry, um, and, and, and, and, um, uh, again, you know, uh, we're donating a portion of proceeds to, uh, so others, um, may eat, but, um, uh, Eric, uh, you guys equally, um, have endowed this fellowship, um, to bring people into the wine world who might not otherwise, uh, be able to gain a foothold, uh, in it.

Uh, will you speak to that just for a second for the folks at home? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I think this was something that's super cool for me, as well, because I, you know, coming from Pittsburgh, which is not a city that is greatly rich with diversity, uh, I did not see a lot of people who looked like me, who were interested or involved in the wine world in any way. Uh, so through this, I was able to meet and, and get to know a lot of people, uh, who talk about wine in a way that I do, who think about wine in a way that I do, uh, but, you know, aren't, you know, promoted necessarily.

And so we at Domestique, we have a, a nice platform that allows us to, to put people in good, good or, you know, great positions, uh, to really learn about business, to learn about wine, uh, to learn about, you know, how to grow a brand, um, and, and most importantly, how to be, you know, comfortable being yourself in this industry, because it's not necessarily an easy thing to do, uh, when you don't necessarily see a lot of representation around. And so we just wanted to offer a little bit more of that. Uh, we, we talk a lot about, you know, you know, social causes and, and kind of diversity in wine, and we really wanted to live by that as well. So, so this was something that was, was honestly a no-brainer for us.

And I can't wait till we get to do it again. Uh, our current fellow Kayla Mensah, uh, who's been with us for the last few months, is absolutely fantastic. She is a brilliant wine mind. Uh, she teaches me something and it's just really awesome to get to work alongside somebody like that, who I may not have gotten to meet otherwise. Yeah, it's brilliant. And, and, you know, for me, I, um, you know, just hugely respect and, um, you know, feel grateful that you all are in our city, um, because, you know, it wasn't a, you know, we're a wine shop and we have a side project kind of thing, you know, it was a full stop. This is a core part of our, uh, identity, um, you know, kind of thing, for the sake of domestique from, uh, from day one.

And, um, you know, you guys are right off North Capitol, you know, you're in the heart of the city, um, in the heart of a city that, you know, um, you know, is still predominantly African-American, and, you know, wanting to bring new faces and new voices into this world. And, you know, obviously I think, you know, the, the wines, the people, um, you know, who enjoy them can't help but friend, but from that, and, um, you know, I, I, um, yeah, I, I, I'm really excited that we were able to do this, um, because it's something I've been wanting to do for a while. And, um, you know, uh, super stoked to, you know, have you guys just down the road and, um, give up more of our paychecks than we probably should to supporting, supporting your wine store, given that we could just buy it ourselves wholesale.

Thank you. Thank you for, for helping keep us. I, I'm a really, really big fan of, you know, having a job. So I really appreciate it. Uh, but I, I, you know, we want to make wine fun for people a lot of like what you're doing here. Uh, you want to give education to people. Uh, we want to do the same thing and it's so nice to have such a receptive community of people who are, are really into it. Um, wine for a long time, you know, people have viewed it as this kind of elitist stuffy sort of, you know, thing where it's like, Oh, like fancy people, drink wine. But I think that you see throughout, you know, our class today, people who shop at domestic, people who dine in your restaurants, uh, that it really is for, for everybody.

Um, and you can hang out with any number of different people and you can find a bond over something like any of these six bottles that we opened today. Uh, because you know, what you and I both look to do. And I think that, you know, that goes into the theory of what all the winemakers that we, we carried here today are looking to do is that we're looking to find people, the best bottle of wine for them. And we're looking to show them that, you know, there are so many different factors that go into it. And, you know, it takes a lot of conversation, a lot of time to get to know about it. But if you're willing to do that, you'll always find people like yourself who are willing to meet them and guide them in the right direction.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. So, uh, we like to lead it out, uh, with a proper chose. So, uh, Eric, uh, we'll probably keep you, if you, if you have more time, I'm sure people, people have questions that we've yet to address the elephant in the room, uh, which is a petrolytist of the, of the Heights Cabernet Sauvignon. But yeah, I got to talk about this. Uh, but, uh, um, you know, I do want to, um, you know, toast to you all at home, toast to you, Eric, and to Zoe, uh, for joining us. Uh, thank you all so much. Um, you know, we live in a richer world because, you know, uh, people from all walks of life, hopefully, feel more comfortable enjoying what we are in the glass today.

So cheers to you all alone together. Sorry. All right, Eric, do you get the petrol? Definitely getting it on the nose. Yeah. Um, I, I think it's, I, I do think it's a little shocking, like coming from the other wines we've tasted today, there's not a lick of new oak. And then I think to come to something that has 50% new oak for two years, um, you know, French Barrique is, is kind of it's always jarring to me, because you know the oak, the new oak influence in particular can feel like a bit of a sledgehammer. Um, you know, I think Cab as it, as it ripens can go to, you know, this Casis place that can infringe on, you know, maybe, maybe like gas station territory.

Uh, but I always, I mean, with like vis-a-vis petrol, I always think, you know, more Riesling, I think more burnt, uh, rubber when it comes to, you know, some, some reds. Maybe like a licorice leaf kind of a situation. Uh, yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, it's definitely like an anise-like sort of lightly mentholated. Uh, Zoe's very good at this game. Uh, Zoe, Zoe has gone both through the, um, the court track and the WSCT tracks. Uh, Zoe, what were your WSCT friends, uh, attached to this, uh, in the way of prescribed adjectives?

I think it's the dill. I think it's the dill. Oh, dill. Very good. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's like a little Rioja action. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. And again, I, it's a cash, it's that cash money. Like you would get it from a bank. It's just like very dollar bills. And it's, and again, it's supposed to be the property that I have because because barrels are expensive but it smells like money or like fresh paper at least um but that's where i get it in a little less from the petrol but that new oak influence it still lingers while it's on the palate and is clinging on to like more of that like vanilla in um that we would expect there might be more dill than like you know grandmother gives you a crisp 20 bill but uh i don't i don't hit the atm machine that much any anymore i mean what is cash clubs are sadly out of the question at the moment so uh

this is cool this like this one is it's it's amazing because you get like whenever i get dill i immediately go to american oak yeah we go to rioja like you said like it's like it's spain and it's like it's An enjoyable one, like I um, it's one of those ones, like I want to spend time with. I don't know if I want to like live with this wine, you know, just because of you know, I don't know. Sometimes that I actually, I just like, love. I kind of love American Oak. Uh, I feel like I feel like sometimes, like American Oak is like bombastic in a way that I enjoy. You know, it's not pretending to be polite. You know, it's just, you know, American brash um uh um, you know, I as you know, I was especially lucky, I met a couple of these vines in vaccine humility, you know, in a wine world history club, you know, so for me right now, that's tall. D250 of course is super cool, and we also had a couple kind of drive-thru's in was before the vineyard-designated Napa calories. Martha's Vineyard, in particular, is this really historic plot of land that Joe Hikes worked with, that they continue to work with to this day. But I don't know, I think; I find them fascinating, too, because I think they're a really interesting case study in, like, how do you take this historic property and make it relevant for a new era? And it's kind of fun to see them navigate that, and it's kind of fun to see Carlton, who, you know, I've, like, I've never hung out with or met Carlton, but, like, I feel strangely related to them because we came up in the same milieu and, like, know some of the same people.

You know, it's kind of fun to see him navigate all of it. So, like, how do you, you know, maintain, you know, the quality of a wine that, in a brand that has existed, but, you know, also make it relevant to a new generation of consumers, and also try to, you know, you know, make it accessible to people who otherwise, you know, wouldn't consider drinking Napa wine. You know, and address all of these other issues that we've talked about because wine doesn't exist in a vacuum. For the sake of social justice and climate change, and all the other things that are important to people who drink wine, and you know, are, you know, sentient, feeling human beings in this era.

So, you know, I think none of that exists in a vacuum, and it's just kind of fun to, you know, see him navigate all that. The last Heights that I had was a 2003 Martha's Vineyard. Oh, you're lucky, buddy. Somebody dropped it off. Like, it was like, they were, like, half finished with the bottle. They're like, oh, like, we thought you might like this. And I was like, uh, yeah. I love their wine; they make is a Grignolino that I've been serving, like, for ages. The Grignolino is this really quirky, it has a ton of seeds, northern Italian varietal, that produces these kinds of, like, maraschino cherry-inflected lighter reds. And it speaks to kind of, like, the Italian immigrant origin.

And it's, like, the origin of the valley, because it was planted when Joe took over the estate, and they couldn't, like, they didn't have in their hearts to, like, not make it anymore. They uprooted those vines, but they still, like, make it. And it's just, like, this awesome, like, un-Napa-Napa wine that I really adore to this day. And I think it's super fun with, like, spicy food and stuff like that. So we actually had it when I was running a list at Little Sarah many moons ago. But what else you got, Zoe? Just a small point that McCoy was also awesome when he took over the rings at Heights, because he changed the economic situation. And so each plot of land is now operating as its own company.

Then not only the winemakers and assistant winemakers but they invite anyone to contribute into profit shares as well. So, then the success of each vineyard equals financial success and a little bit of equity along everyone who's involved in making the wine. And that's just, again, another way to like, be able to bring representation and to bring more people into the wine industry when it's been so white and so old and so Frenchmen-dominated all this time. Zoe, we're not paying you enough. That was awesome. And they also work with this really awesome soil scientist we love named Brenna Quigley. And his take on that was kind of cool. He's like, you know, a lot of people, you know, work with French consultants.

You know, we have this really awesome American woman who's doing, a geologist who's doing some of the same work. You know, why wouldn't we work with her? So, yeah, it is kind of fun to see someone navigate that, you know, equally. You know, for me, it's kind of fun to see because, you know, like, I would never go to Napa. Like, if I was going to California, like, Napa would be, like, the last place I would go to. Like, I would, you know, go to, you know, the Sierra foothills or wherever. But, you know, by the same token, it's kind of fun to see someone, you know, who doesn't look like you know, other people that have run wineries in Napa, you know, take that on and hopefully continues to open things up for people so that there's less novelty to it.

You know, I think that at the end of the day, like, there's no one, you know, you know, universal wine experience any more than there's one universal African-American experience. I think, like, the more that we get more, you know, diverse, you know, faces in the room, you know, the more we can, you know, nerd out. And have fun with these things and make the wine world more multi-faceted and, you know, dynamic. Speaking of little connections that some of our wines may have, we at Domestic are huge fans of Kateri wines. Oh, Tony! It happens. Caleb Leisure. Yeah. But it just so happens that Phil Kateri is actually the, like, the knowledge is for my wines. Yeah. Yeah.

He, he's, he, he's working on the I think he's I don't know if he's in I think he's working on the vineyard level. I don't know if he's working on the the the cellar side. Yeah. He's definitely he's in the vineyard. He's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's the truth. And and so I so I went to Tony Kateri is just like a rascable Sonoma guy. He's another one of these OGs who's making like natural wine before it was a thing. But his essentially right-hand man makes wine and he's made a lot of wine cabernet, Georgian clay and for that we've sold at our store. And I went to Georgia with him. So, small, weird, incestuous, Northern California natural wine world. Zoe, what else you got? Another great topic of California and fires.

How does that affect the vines? How does it affect wines that are in barrel and bottle? I mean, there are fires. So my cons like barely escaped. They lost a few vine rows. They lost one of their like tasting rooms or like one of their tasting buildings on Mount Beater. I think the big fear like there is not necessarily like this fire. It's like a future of fires as like a regular thing. And I think people need to understand it's like not a Napa specific thing. Like they're dealing with the same shit in Australia in particular, you know. But yeah. I think the fear, you know, for them is, you know, less of a specific event and more about like this as a pattern, you know, that occurs, you know, once every two years as opposed to once every two decades.

And to kind of touch on, you know, how, you know, the wines are affected. You saw a lot of this, you know, in California. In Oregon this year as well. Where you'll see winemakers look to press a bit more gently, a little less skin contact. So you have a little bit less of that smoke taint quality in your wine. Wines that are in barrel already are for the most part going to be fine. But it's just grapes that were hanging out. You want to obviously test to see how tainted those are. And if you have salvageable grapes, a lot of people that I've spoken to this year just did a lot more. More direct pressing of their wines. Have you, Eric, have you worked harvest out there? I have not.

Oh, I've heard. I have not. Have you traveled out there quite a bit? Not quite a bit, just once. Oh, really? Where'd you go? Like vacation. Just going to like San Francisco to visit a friend. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's funny. I always get this thing where going west is always this thing where it's like I should do that. And then I went to France and it's like this was cheaper. Yeah, I mean, it probably gives you more street cash. It probably gives you like more cachet when you finally do decide to go west. I mean, it's not even that. Like, it's always one of those things where, like, I look at a flight to, like, L.A. or something like that. And it's like it's like, oh, this is $650.

And then I look at, like, flying to, you know, into like Paris. And it's like, oh, this was $495. It's like, dude. Yeah, no. And they give you it's like the same. It's the same time. And you fly to L.A., you get no free drink. They treat you like an ass. Yeah. I am an asshole. But no, no. But if you, if you fly to France, suddenly there's cachet. They give you a free drink and, you know, they give you like proper meals. But like, the fact that it's domestic means that they can treat you like steerage. It's crazy. Look, I love the Lufthansa flight. I love, you know, Oh, Lufthansa is the truth. Four beers on the flight over, having a nice nap, watching a shitty movie. Oh, it's amazing.

I love that. I'm all about the universe of movies that you'll watch when you're on a plane that you wouldn't necessarily watch normally. Yeah. Like, crazy, entertaining nonetheless. Like, I want to live in that, like, you know, like, like wherever that is in the Venn diagram. I kind of want to live there. Yeah, I love it. What do you drink when you're on a flight? What's that? What do you drink? What do you both drink when you're on flights? Depending upon how excited I am for the trip, it ranges from scotch. Oh, like I. I love, you know, having a couple of the mini bottles of scotch. If I'm, you know, very excited about it, I'll, I'll like only have that.

But if I'm not very excited about it, like I have like a ton of stuff and it's all like going to be fairly arduous, I drink like seven or eight beers. I'm not a good, I'm not a good airline drinker. I usually, I love an airport bar above all things. So, I, I will like front load and then I'll just have a drink. On the plane, you know, but I don't usually drink on the plane itself, but I love an airport bar above all things. Yes. Yeah. I miss, like, one of my, I miss that about, like, it; like airport bars feel like the Star Wars bar, random people. It's, it's amazing. Like, I love those are some of my favorite, like, you know, passing connections.

I will say the airport bar is the perfect place for a martini as well. But, you, but you get like a swimming pool. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, I'm going to hop in here really quickly. I'll be down in 15 minutes. Yeah. You need like floaties for a year. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, airport bars. We'll all get back there eventually, man. What else you got? That's all I got. All right. All right. Well, let's raise a glass. It's been too much fun, Erica. I see, I see airport bars in our future, hopefully. Thank you so much. Again, we will, we will, you know, kind of distribute these links tomorrow in, in our wrap up. But so others might eat, you guys have been insanely generous for the sake of donations in the past, but a portion of the proceeds from today's lesson will go to them.

The fellowship, the major tele-fellowship that the line folks at Domestique helm, I'll post a link for that as well. And you can, you can donate to that. Can you not, Eric? Yes. You absolutely can. Yeah. Yeah. So feel free to make a donation to the fellowship. In addition to frequenting Domestique, one of the top five natural wine stores in the entire United States of America, and number one certainly in my heart, but cheers to you all. Thank you for joining us tonight. Cheers, everyone. Thank you for having me.