Glou Glou Goes Global: Fun with Whole Clusters

Class Transcript:

All right, let's release the hounds. Welcome, welcome one and all; a fabulous Thanksgiving weekend to you. Thank you for rousing yourselves from your holiday naps and joining us for a riveting discussion of carbonic maceration. So this is a kind of a different kind of class than we have conducted before. It is a delightfully nerdy venture and I will say, we haven't been short on delightfully nerdy ventures here at Reveilleur's Hour at CLF Goat; but this is you know particularly nerdy for the sake of bringing together a batch of wines that are united by a winemaking principle. So we are shining a light on wildly refreshing group of wines that are tailor-made for the holidays. They're the kind of thing that you can, you know, drink all day, drink with just about anything you throw on the Thanksgiving table.

They are delicious on their own and they are fabulous with food as well; and the French call them 'glue-glue'. Okay. Which is, you know, just their kind of version of our glug-glug, which is to say, the kinds of wines that you want to drink from the bottle. And typically, glue-glue is applied to gluggable red wines, and that's what we're focusing on today, because the technique that we are further exploring, carbonic maceration, is typically deployed for red wines, and it's a fascinating bit of winemaking methodology. And it begs the question of whether or not we're going to be able to do that. Well, you know, I think that's a great question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question.

We want to ask all sorts of deeper questions about wine and how we think of it. Because I think you know the popular image of wine is as this repository of place, this communicator of typicity and terroir. But carbonic maceration kind of pulls in a different direction. It makes wine into something a little more ubiquitously refreshing. It can run roughshod over typicity of place, and I think at the end of the day the question is, are we comfortable? That in our wines, you know, uh, is that a rightful role, uh, for wine to play, you know, is it, you know, just as useful um, as wines that are made in a, a more classic kind of Burgundian style and that are more robust and more age-worthy and um, you know, we're gonna live in those questions today.

I don't wanna offer you know, any uh pithy um, you know, kind of suggestions about the answer, I don't want to pre-prescribe um, you know, kind of conclusions uh, for the sake of this debate uh, I want us to live um, in this mystery so uh, we have four bottles and the bottles varied over the course of the month um, we have a pair of Beaujolais, the very pair of Beaujolais um, that we um, sold over the course of November uh, one of which is a more classic um, Beaujolais Vougeot and one of which is Nouveau; we'll talk about the difference forthrightly um, and then we're gonna move into uh, Spanish red um, the kind of playfully named Cabronicas um, follow that up with uh, California juice, love you bunches um, and uh, close things out with the uh, Unicorn carbonically macerated white wine it does exist in Virginia there is such a thing um, and uh, that one is uh, out of uh, the Bergland and Eastern Austria, without further ado, um, uh, let us, uh, kick things off, I want to thank you all, of course, for joining us, whether it's your first time or 57th, um, this being a lesson 57, um, without further ado, I'm gonna kick things off here with a bit of verse, as we are want to do thrilled to have Zoe back in the mix with a virtual background, everybody wish uh Zoe and her dog Penny uh all the love she is 14 years going on strong, um, uh, and uh, here we go, we are, for the sake of verse, this is Robinson Jeffers, um, he was, uh, famously, uh, pacifist, uh, opposed U.S. intervention in World War II, didn't win a lot of friends ports, uh, but then some glories.

Verse, um, uh, significantly um about the natural world, uh, he lived the bulk of his life in the central coast of California, which is where Lovey Bunches Stoltman Vineyards is located. This is called wonder and joy the things that one grows in the world that you say uh, enjoy tired of oh, be sure they are only foolish artificial things. Can a bird ever tire of having wings? And I so long as life and sense endure or brief be they shall never more inure my heart to the recurrence of the springs of gray dawns, the gracious evenings, the infinite wheeling stars a wonder pure must ever well within me to behold the Venus decline or great Orion.

Whose belt is studded with three nails of burning gold, ascend the winter heaven, who never felt this wandering joy may yet be good or great but envy him not, he is not fortunate, brilliant. So uh today I like that um you know idea of um you know joy, uh uh vis-a-vis um you know kind of um a uh bold-faced wonder um at the joy of the creation uh for the sake of something, like Orion's belt or uh easy drinking wine uh for the sake of the offerings we're enjoying uh today. So these are the Orion's belt of wines uh such it is and uh we're going to kick things off with dueling Beaujolais and uh we're going to do something a little different here.

zoe do you have beaujolais at home I need not I have some tea I'm gonna be working all night boo boo no um uh at any rate so you're gonna have to speak uh historically in terms of your knowledge of um you know carbonic wines and beaujolais such as it it exists um and um I will uh fill in with some tasting notes but I encourage you uh I know we we usually do better with participation uh on the chat when we're you know uh you know several dozen minutes deep and a few glasses of wine strong but I encourage you uh to pipe in sooner because uh we're doing things a little differently here we're going to start with the wine in the glass um for The sake of this consideration because you know the wine is a wine that's been in the glass, because you know the wine is a wine that's been in the glass, so um, you should be uh, you know, uh, at the You know, this is all about glue, glue, glue, glue. Again, French onomatopoeia for glug, glug. And we're considering the wonder and joy that is Beaujolais to kick things off. I have two Beaujolais here from two different producers. The one to my right here is Beaujolais Volage. I have a map of Beaujolais. This is kind of adhering to the classic French tradition of identifying a wine by its designation of origin. These are geographically based creatures in the French system.

To say Beaujolais implies the rest. It implies almost monolithically Gamay. Gamay, that great underdog grape famously outlawed in Burgundy as early as the 14th century. It finds a toehold in the granitic outcroppings of northern Beaujolais in particular. And that is the crew zone, 10 crews, which you see here. The darker purple area is the Beaujolais Volage region. It corresponds to a number of villages that turn out wine that are regulated more stringently than the wines throughout the rest of the region and have elevated status as such. This particular one, I'm going to zoom in, no one's yet, comes from a winemaking merchant named Christophe Hacquelet. And he's the nephew of one of our great heroes for the sake of this discourse, Marcel Lapierre. But more about him later. Christophe is a negociant.

So he purchases fruit and makes wine in his chai or cellar in Cercier, which is just south of Morgon and the Morgon, which is a home base for now Marcel's son and daughter who run the roost at his estate. This particular vineyard is in Lantigny. Lantigny is just west of the crew zone and is one of the most famous villages in the Beaujolais Volage zone. This particular vineyard is in Lantigny. Lantigny is just west of the crew zone and is one of the most famous villages in the Beaujolais Volage zone. Incidentally, the region takes its name from the village of Beaujolais. There was a duke of Beaujolais once upon a time before the whole region got usurped by the duke of Burgundy.

But this particular vineyard in Lantigny, the vines are very old; they come from 1911 for the sake of this particular wine. And that is this offering from Christophe Hacquelet. This is a 2020 vintage. Now, 2020 was a truly a global warming vintage - very hot, very dry, a sign of things to come in Beaujolais. This wine sits comfortably at 13.5% alcohol. And Christophe had to exercise some restraint to bring it in at that level. A lot of the wines, a lot of the other vintages I've seen from 2020 took the scales at 14+. Now, this other offering I have for you from Domaine de Cornigal. It scales from. It should be said, a different corner of the region. It hails from further south, outside of the Crouzon in Saint-Veran, so the southwestern extreme, along a tributary of the Seine.

The Seine is itself a tributary of the Rhône that runs north-south and kind of defines the eastern boundary of the region. Now, the Southern zone of Beaujolais is different geologically than the Northern zone. A much more limestone there, although there are granitic outcroppings, and Domaine de Cornillac has some granite. It should be said that granite degrades into the kinds of sands that Gamay adores. Gamay typically doesn't establish a deeper root system on limestone quite as well as Pinot Noir, for instance, does, which is why originally it was outlawed in Burgundy proper, again, many centuries ago, and found this kind of spiritual home. Now, we're going to taste these two wines. The Nouveau stems from this tradition, the Cornillac, stems from the tradition of releasing wine and primer. So Nouveau is the new wine.

It is 2021. 2021, very different vintage from 2020. The Nouveau here from Domaine de Cornillac tipping the scales at 12.5% alcohol, which is much more typical for Beaujolais historically. It is a lighter. Easier drinking wine. That's not to say that Gamay can't turn out bigger, broader-shouldered offerings, but in this case, it is easier drinking. Now, this whole wine and primer thing was a phenomenon all around France, but particularly in Beaujolais, but it came into its own in the 50s, 60s, into the 70s and 80s through the ages of this gentleman's father, George de Boeuf. I would have pulled up a picture of George himself. This is Frank de Boeuf, but this is just too good a picture. Very Rex Manning here with, I think it's got to be a Jeroboam.

That's four regular bottles, at the very least, of Beaujolais Nouveau. And Nouveau became this global marketing phenomenon through the ages of Frank's father, George de Boeuf. He took this tradition of releasing wine and primer, the first release, coinciding with the third Thursday in November. And he made it this global phenomenon. He sent Concorde. Across the pond from Beaujolais, from Paris to New York, held these epic release parties that were modeled after this kind of original release, this original journey of the wine from Beaujolais proper to Paris that coincided with the end of harvest. Now, these are not necessarily wines that are built to last. They are fresh, fruity, easier drinking, and that has everything to do with how they're made, which we're going to get to very shortly. Now. I want to taste these two wines and get your feedback on what, you know, distinguishes these wines from, you know, the more serious red wines that, you know, I think typically people want when they ask for red wine. I find at the restaurants when you know guests ask for red wine, what they're really saying is give me a big fucking glass of red wine. You know, these are not that. These are immensely drinkable. As I said, glue-glue kinds of offerings. You know, they are the beer of wines and enjoyable as such, but different. Than what, you know, we've been trained to appreciate for the sake of breads. Now, Zoe, what do you like about, you know, Nouveau, about Beaujolais such as it is, and what's your experience of these wines?

Well, they'll always live in my heart because we open Reveler's Hour with Nouveau on our minds, but we also jumped into everything about Beaujolais, so it will always be there. I think that Beaujolais Nouveau in particular can go well with so many things, and now that we are making it not just in the tutti frutti kind of a way, and we have these premier producers making like such possible wine. Yes, it's great for this week and downing all the turkey, but they just pair so well with everything. And then Beaujolais as a whole has so much variety from like the quaffable Nouveaus to something that's more structured, like the Moulin Avance and the Morgans of the world. It's just such a large amount of variety. Within one grape, within one very specific place.

It's a great point, Zoe, and I get a sense of that for the sake of these two wines. So most of you at home will be drinking the Beaujolais Volage, which is in my right hand here. And the color, I don't know if you get any sense of this whatsoever. This is like the least riveting piece of, you know, podcasting or whatever the hell we're doing, zooming, that we've ever offered for the sake of colors. I kind of get the sense. So this through the magic of my Apple camera, but much more kind of a deeper garnet color to the Beaujolais Volage, whereas the Nouveau is much more kind of intensely violet purple. And that has to do with the youth of one wine versus another.

I can also have to do with the temperature on the fermentation. Do you have some good tasting notes from the crowd for the sake of either of these ones? So, yeah, absolutely. It seems like the Pacolet is super juicy, kind of, I like the Gushers vibe is a really nice note. We also have that the Christophe has a lot of black cherry, some raspberry and bramble, a little forest floor in the mix as well. Yeah, those are all great tasting notes. And it's a wine that's dominated almost exclusively by fruit. But, you know, the type of fruit is that, you know, tart, berry. Fruit is that ripe, fresh summer fruit, as opposed to anything that's like cooked or stewed or baked or manipulated at all.

It is, you know, fruit at the height of summer and even, you know, maybe a little before peak ripeness for the sake of these wines. And there's an immediacy to them. They're juicy. They're approachable. They're delicious. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that, you know, you linger over. It's the kind of thing you throw back. And, you know, that's, you know, very much what they are intended for, for the sake of enjoyment. Now, the question begs, why do they taste this way? Why aren't they more sturdy and tannic the way a lot of reds are? Why don't they have, you know, those layers of spice and those layers of spice that certainly Gamay can have in other iterations and certainly that we expect of other red wines?

Well, to answer my own question, that has everything to do with how they are produced. And our watchword today is going to be carbonic maceration, carbonic maceration. So carbonic maceration refers to, at its essence, intracellular fermentation. Thank you, Gild Sam, which sounds hopelessly clinical and is. But at the end of the day, the idea is that we're dealing with a form of anaerobic fermentation. So not unlike our muscle cells produce lactic acid in the absence of oxygen when you know, you're finishing up that set or finishing off that run or, you know, you know, reaching for another turkey drumstick; grapes will produce alcohol in the absence of oxygen under specific conditions. So there are two necessary preconditions for carbonic maceration, and those preconditions are all clusters, as you see here, and an anaerobic environment (anaerobic equals 0.86% oxygen).

Now, that can be accomplished in a number of different ways that can be accomplished through the addition of dry ice or CO2 to fermentation vat that is then sealed off. Or it can be accomplished by the natural action of yeast that will produce CO2 during fermentation. It should be said that this process, carbonic maceration, is as old as wine itself. It was described as by Louis Pasteur when he was first unraveling mystery fermentation. He spoke approvingly of it in wines. You know, as early as the mid to late 19th century. So it has been a factor in winemaking for as long as there have been wine, but it hasn't been a technique that winemakers have actively employed rigorously until the modern era. So wines made in this style are thrown into a tank, with whole bunches.

So hugely important that the grapes are harvested by hand. And it should be said that in the Beaujolais zone. By law, for a wine to be called Beaujolais, the grapes have to be harvested by hand. If you see Beaujolais on the label at all, you know that's the truth. And that's because carbonic maceration plays such an important part in the making of a lot of these wines. Now, you take these whole clusters, you throw them into a fermentation tank intact. Now, at this point, you can add CO2 yourself and seal off the tank and create an environment in which, you know, carbonic maceration occurs in almost all the grapes. Or you can allow the fruit to naturally settle and a portion of the bunches at the bottom will be crushed and the wine will start to ferment normally.

So yeast will start to ferment sugar in that juice and form both alcohol, ethanol, alcohol and CO2. But as that CO2 displaces the air and CO2 itself is denser than air, so will displace the air very quickly. Then. In that environment, even without the addition of dry ice or your own gas, carbonic maceration will start to happen within these individual grapes. So what is happening within these grapes during the carbonic maceration process? Well, you have a conversion of both sugar and malic acid. Remember, there are different types of acid in grapes. Malic acid is the apple acid. It's that green apple acid. It's kind of that harsher acid. That we perceive in underripe fruit. You have a conversion of malic acid into ethanol, alcohol and other chemical constituents, chiefly glycerol, acetaldehyde and some other chemical constituents that we'll talk about in a minute.

So you have malic acid consumed. So those levels go down, sugar consumed and alcohol levels go up. Now, that only precedes a pace for so long. You only get to about 2% alcohol. 2% of alcohol. 2% of alcohol in the solution until the grapes burst, until the cells die. But during that time, you also have this leaching of anthocyanins. Those are the pigments in the skins of grapes that account for the color in all red wine. Those get leached into the flesh of the grapes. Now, the flesh of the grape is typically clear, but that leaching of that color into the flesh produces a different kind of grape. So on the right here, you see a carbonically macerated grape, whereas on the left, you see a grape that proceeds through a more traditional alcoholic fermentation, which is to say that wines that are made in this style tend to have lighter color at the end of the day.

Tannins are also leached from the skins into the grape flesh. So you also get wines that are lower in tannins than wines of their ilk. So at the end of the day, this process, which only accounts for about 2% of the alcohol in a solution until the grapes give up the ghost, the cell walls rupture. And at that point, the winemaker just presses the grapes like normal and normal fermentation, aerobic fermentation through the action of Saccharomyces cerveza, our hero yeast, accomplishes the rest up to 12, 13% alcohol. You know, so it accounts for a relatively narrow bandwidth of alcohol. In this solution, but it creates all of these really interesting chemical constituents. Ethylcinnamate being one of them, isoamyl acetate being another and a chemical signature that's also responsible for an artificial banana flavor.

So you get these chemical constituents that give the wine a fresher, fruitier bubblegum berry driven quality that we wouldn't typically associate with red wine and also diminish the perception of tannins. Now, this is a flavor wheel. Um, uh, three different wines graded according to these different dimensions of taste. Um, and this is in Merlot. Um, but this is the same set of Merlot that has gone through carbonic maceration. The carbonic rep is the pressed juice from carbonic maceration. So there's a distinction between a free run juice that comes off of that, that we saw. And then after they press, um, the juice is a little more dynamic and a little more tannic. And a little more intense, uh, in terms of, um, aromatic overall aromatic intensity. And then the traditional maceration, uh, the traditional fermentation.

Um, so you can see the traditional fermentation has a fuller body and fuller astringency, um, than, uh, the carbonic maceration wine. And that is the big difference that we notice, uh, between these wines, uh, at the, at the end of the day. Um, the carbonic maceration is easier drinking, um, and lower in tannins. And fresher and fruitier than a more traditional wine. Um, and it has an identity all of its own, um, uh, you know, which is attributable to this technique and, you know, kind of less attributable to, um, the grapes such as they existed and came off the vineyard. And, you know, that is variously desirable depending on your perspective. Um, at any rate, um, uh, uh, I want to pause for questions because we've gone through some really wonky, um, on nerdery for the sake of carbonic maceration.

So Zoe assembled those, it should be said, you know, at the end of the day, why did this, um, uh, technique become, uh, so popular in Beaujolais? Well, uh, through the work of the gentleman, uh, to the left, that is, um, Jules Chauvet. Um, he's kind of the godfather of both carbonic maceration, natural wine movement, um, Beaujolais as we know it. Um, he was actually kind of, um, uh, building on the work of a gentleman named Michel Fonzy, who, who himself is from Languedoc further in, in, uh, South and France. Jules Chauvet was, you know, responding to all sorts of problems created by, um, aggressive industrial farming methods in his region. Um, all sorts of wine faults, um, particularly over abundance of lactic acid in wines, um, which, uh, itself stemmed from, uh, um, producers kind of picking early, um, under-ripe grapes that had, uh, quite a bit of malic acid, which then was converted into, um, uh, you know, uh, higher amounts of, um, lactic acid.

He was wondering, you know, how can we, you know, work with our fruit, um, in a more non-interventionist way and produce wines of place that have, you know, the same, uh, um, immediacy, um, of, uh, uh, of taste and, um, the same kind of approachable, um, nature. And he arrived at carbonic maceration as, um, a, a way to make these aromatically intense wines. And not only was he, um, deploying carbonic maceration, but he was doing so at, um, uh, lower temperatures. So, uh, carbonic maceration tends to proceed faster at higher temperatures and slower at lower temperatures. And at lower temperatures, the, you know, um, uh, kind of complex aromatics, that aromatic intensity that Jules Chabert, uh, who's a very gifted taster and worked with a lot of France's premier, uh, perfume producers, um, to improve his, uh, tasting chops.

So working cold was as much a part of his regime as carbonic maceration was, uh, should be said. And there is no one carbonic maceration. There are various, various different ways to work with carbonic maceration in wine. And, uh, it should be said too, that, you know, there is full carbonic maceration for the sake of wine and partial. So you can, you know, uh, work with this technique in all of your wine, all of your grapes or a, uh, you know, portion of your grapes, and you can do it, um, you know, more aggressively, uh, by introducing CO2 yourself, or you can just happen, let it happen haphazardly, which, um, tends to give it kind of a less, a full imprint of that kind of carbonic sets of flavors.

Now, Jules Sauvé, um, starting in 1981, 81, found this ready acolyte in Marcel Lapierre, uh, he and his gang of merry men, um, uh, Guy Breton, um, uh, Jules, uh, Four Yard, um, and, um, uh, well, uh, Charminard, uh, was, was a part of that group, um, uh, as well, um, uh, gang of four or gang of five, depending on, um, uh, your, uh, Pope Paul Fidnay, um, depending on your frame of reference, uh, kind of popularize that methodology. And it became, um, associated with the region and became associated with natural wine more broadly, uh, which we're going to get to just, uh, in a moment, uh, for the sake of the Spanish wine that, uh, we'll be considering briefly, but, uh, I promised, um, a question Zoe, and then I, I continue to bloviate, um, uh, hit me.

Um, yeah, to start off with, um, are there certain grapes, um, other than Gamay that respond well to carbonic maceration or what is it about Gamay specifically? That's responsible for the eternal question when it comes to carbonic maceration. So Jules Chivet was working with, uh, Gamay in a particular context in the very green soils of Beaujolais. Um, he, uh, later in life actually, um, uh, kind of, uh, moved away from carbonic maceration and favored, um, uh, de-stemming his fruit and making wines in a more kind of traditional, uh, manner, um, without the aggressive, uh, input of that, you know, kind of, uh, particular technique. Um, uh, he advocated it for Gamay. He thought it was good for grapes like Carignan and Grenache and Languedoc.

Um, and he saw a place for it, you know, with, you know, some Girard varietals, like Dussard. Uh, he thought for other varietals, um, it tended to, um, run roughshod over, uh, the character of the grapes. Um, it tended to diminish varietal character. It tended to diminish the sense of place, um, in a way that he, he didn't like. Um, so I, I'm quoting a different, um, kind of titan of French natural wine. This is, uh, from Eric Tessier. Uh, he's talking about carbonic maceration. He said, it's an efficient technique with which to make natural wines, um, which is to say, you know, to make wines with a minimum amount of intervention, um, in, uh, the cellar. Um, but, uh, it gives such a strong aromatic, um, signature that the result often shows more of the technique itself than the terroir, except in very specific combinations. And, uh, the combination, uh, you know, that he was speaking of, um, was, uh, uh, Beaujolais and Gamay, um, cheaply. Um, you know, but for, for other grapes like, uh, Cabernet Sauvignon, um, has such a strong varietal imprint that, you know, um, uh, carbonic doesn't make, uh, a lot of sense. it's this, um, you know, eternal question of, you know, what is attributable to, you know, the artifice and, and, and what belongs in the art, um, such as it is. And, and how do we balance the two? You know, how do we, you know, balance this question of, you know, what is innately special about this grape? Um, and, you know, does this technique enhance that character? Um, or, um, are we making something that's just ubiquitously carbonic? Um, and, and that is something that, you know, I think natural wine makers are thinking about quite a bit right now, um, as the technique has become more ubiquitous, uh, throughout the natural wine world. And that's really the question for us today, as we, as we taste through these wines, Zoe.

So that was a, a very, uh, excellent question. Um, what else you got? I was hoping it would be, I kind of early called that in the chat. So glad you agree. Um, are there different climates that are better suited for, um, You guys are, you guys are fucking killing it with the questions here. Um, uh, you know, I don't necessarily, uh, think so, you know, it's a technique that has been deployed in Beaujolais, um, uh, which is kind of a less marginal climate than Burgundy to the north, but, you know, um, not the, you know, great Valhalla, certainly that Languedoc does, um, uh, but it's equally deployed, you know, for grapes like Cap Franc in the Loire, um, really thoughtfully.

Um, so, uh, I don't think there's one climate that can lay claim to carbonic maceration, um, as a, as a technique. Um, you know, it necessitates fully ripe, um, uh, you know, clean fruit, um, because you're working with whole clusters, um, uh, you know, in, in the back, you know, typically, you know, you wouldn't want, um, you know, under ripe grapes, although, you know, some of the malic acid would be converted.  I would, you know, think that's something you would, you know, kind of, um, consciously, uh, avoid. Um, but, uh, I think it's a wine making technique that lends itself to a lot of different applications, which is what a lot of natural wine makers really like about it.

And, um, you know, it, uh, tends to produce, um, wines really efficiently, um, because, you know, during that, uh, carbonic maceration product, uh, process, you get, um, uh, you know, this kind of, um, uh, breakdown of, grapes into different, you know, chemical constituents that be become food for yeast and, uh, kind of kickstart this, you know, um, really active ferment, um, after that carbonic maceration process, um, wraps up, um, and, and that carbonic maceration process can last anywhere from, you know, um, uh, two to three days to two weeks, depending on how cold you keep your tanks. What else you got? Um, who made Beaujolais Nouveau taboo? Whose fault is it? Um, it's Georgia Booth's fault. Um, but, you know, it's, it's both to his credit and to his fault.

Um, he was a genius for the sake of marketing. He took this, you know, um, off the beaten path underdog wine that is Beaujolais. And he, he made it this global phenomenon for the sake of this, you know, marketing event. Um, you know, uh, in November, um, he gave Americans excuse to drink on a weekday. And we're always looking for that, whether it's St. Patrick's day or the third Thursday in November. Um, he gave Americans excuse to drink on a weekday and we're always looking for that. And, and, you know, people ran with it. It didn't matter to them that the wine was unremarkable and tasted like, you know, um, bubble gum that you get out of a dispensing machine. You know, the mere fact of easy drinking alcohol was necessary.

Now, uh, the problem was that, uh, he encouraged the, uh, wine growers, uh, the grape growers of Beaujolais to massively overproduce Gamay, uh, to the point that, you know, um, he, uh, um, oversold his product and the market, uh, became oversaturated with really shitty wine. Um, so much so that it had to be thrown back into the still and, you know, purchased back by the French government. Um, you know, so, uh, it, it went from this great success story, um, to this kind of, you know, regional embarrassment. Um, and then furthermore, and then Beaujolais Nouveau, um, this unique kind of seasonal phenomenon became conflated with Beaujolais, the region. And, uh, Beaujolais, the region meant that, you know, that's what makes these, you know, uh, much more, you know, kind of profound wines, um, and throughout the Gruzone.

And some of those are made with, with carbonic maceration, but some aren't. And, you know, some of those wines are as great as the greatest wines at Burgundy, um, to the North. Um, uh, but the fact of the success of Dubuff, um, and his allies, um, meant that, you know, people came to associate Beaujolais with its, you know, mass marketed success story, much the way that people came to associate, you know, Italian or Australian Chardonnay with Yeltsin. So, you know, I think, you know, for the sake of these ubiquitous international brands, you know, very often you become a victim of your own success. And that's what happened with Beaujolais. Groovy, so I'm going to turn our attention now to the Spanish wine. And I'm really excited about this one.

This one comes from Southern Spain. So I think this is kind of a fascinating case study in the internationalization of this technique, carbonic maceration. So historically, the wine world was very insular, you know, especially in France, especially in like Burgundy proper. From one cellar to the next, you know, winemakers were very tight-lipped and they were not collegial. They were not forthcoming. About what was happening in their cellar. They weren't sharing best practices, one with the other. You know, it was futile. And, you know, that has, you know, fortunately changed. And the wine world is international, much more so than it used to be. People travel from one region to the next. They share knowledge. And there's this lingua franca in wine.

And I think that's particularly the case among natural winemakers, because, you know, they are motivated by a lot of the same concerns for the sake of transparency. In terms of how they manipulate and produce their wine in the cellar. And, you know, I think, you know, for better or worse, they are nominated, they are motivated by, you know, the common good for the sake of producing wine in a way that ensures that continued, you know, kind of survival of, you know, great growing and wine producing in, you know, these historic corners of the world. And that doesn't, you know, contribute to the degradation of the vineyard or the environment. It doesn't contribute to human misery on a broader scale. And that's to be celebrated.

And, you know, in as much as biodynamics has become a global phenomenon, carbonic maceration has become a global phenomenon. You know, a lot of other things like orange wine, pet nat, these are all part of the vocabulary. And, you know, a lot of them started out as fads, but, you know, they have come to transcend that. And there are, you know, effective, you know, wines made in this style and unaffected, ineffective ones. We're moving now to Tempranillo. And Tempranillo is the most widely grown red grape in Spain. I think a lot of people have a preconceived notion of Tempranillo as a big, brutish wine, even in Rioja, it makes these full-fruited oaky wines. You know, Rioja can be hugely elegant, particularly in the Rioja Alta zone and Rioja Alavesa zone.

But, you know, typically it sees quite a bit of oak. Now, historically, that wasn't always the case. There was actually, prior to the arrival of the merchants from Bordeaux, after the pernicious yellow aphid phylloxera hit, you know, the Gironde estuary, a lot of them decamped to Rioja. But before they did and started kind of, you know, making wines in their own image, there was a long tradition of making wine with carbonic maceration in Rioja from Tempranillo. This kind of is a wine that kind of reverts back to that tradition. It comes from southern Spain. So we're going to zoom in here. Spain's tallest mountains are actually the Sierra Nevadas. And they kind of run east-west along the southern Mediterranean here, above Málaga and Granada.

And this comes from a good-looking Spanish gentleman who is a proud champion of wines from this region. His name is Ramón Saavedra. And this is his kind of homage to Tempranillo as it was, you know, produced in Rioja in the 19th century. It's polycarbonic Tempranillo. Now, he is in a very hot climate. He works against that in a few different ways. He's making wine at elevation, somewhere between you know, 300, 600 meters. He's working with north-facing slopes. Typically, in more marginal climates, you always want to be south-facing because you get more sun in the northern hemisphere. But in hotter regions, it pays to be north-facing because, you know, you get a little less of that aggressive, you know, kind of ripening solar power.

And then he's working with, you know, carbonic maceration, which also produces this fresher, easier drinking wine. I particularly adore this one because it has a really kick-ass label. Anytime you can throw a centaur on your label, you know, I think you should. That's just a good rule of thumb. And the centaur is like a happy centaur. You know, we're not guarding the labyrinth, you know, against, you know, De Dallas and, you know, you know, De Dallas built the labyrinth. I forget who's running around the labyrinth. I'm sorry. But anyway, the Minotaur was haunting the labyrinth. But, you know, we're not, you know, feeding and consuming any all comers. We're, you know, we're, you're watering the vines. We're, you know, we're, you know, we're, you know, we're watering the vines.

We're, you know, we're working the land here. I dig that. Furthermore, this wine called Cabronicas. So that's a play on carbonic, obviously, but Cabron, great Spanish word, basically means bastard. But like in kind of like a fun, you know, collegial sense. But I adore this wine. For me, this is like a perfect natural wine. You know, it is, you know, fun, festive, fruity, easy drinking. But it is not flawed. There's no rodent climbing out of the bottle for the sake of mousiness. You know, there's no volatile acid. Doesn't taste like fucking vinegar. You know, it's just, you know, immediately refreshing and joyful. Any thoughts on the bastard here? And how does it compare to people's preconceived notion of Tempranillo? And how does it compare to the Gamay that we tasted previously?

Zoe, what do you got? Well, a lot softer, a lot easier to get to know, a more of a gentle Minotaur or a collegiate Minotaur. Yeah, we're in touch with our feelings. A Minotaur is very, very in touch with its feelings. But yeah, absolutely. To see it with its purity, if you will, with all that like black pepper spice, but not in the hitting over your head or without the use of oak, I think is interesting. Barney already on the nose, but it's crazy. Tasty earlier, there was a lot of discussion about how the nose from wine can be so different from the actual flavors, just like how sulfur will play. Perhaps you can expand upon that for a minute.

I mean, I love wines that have that slight of hand that, you know, have that disjuncture between, you know, perception, you know, of, you know, that aromatic realm and perception on the palate. And, you know, it's certainly one of those. It does have like a chewiness to it that I adore. I think it's certainly more tannic than a previous one we tasted that has everything to do with Tempranillo grown in a warmer environment. You know, you can, you know, diminish tannins, but you can't eradicate them entirely from a grape like Tempranillo that is inherently more tannic than Gamay. I definitely get that farmyardy dimension. It should be said for the sake of carbonic. Maceration that that process of reducing the malic acid in wine and raising the pH can invite microbiological bad actors.

That's why Jules Chivet favored cooler temperatures in his ferments, because that warded off those spoilage agents. You know, but very often with wines that are made in this carbonic macerated style, sometimes you'll get Britannia mysis in the mix, which is a wild yeast that gives you that horse blanket. But. I don't think the Copernicus has a ton of that. I've had this wine in previous vintages and it has for me, this is like pleasantly herbaceous. It's not like in your face, horse blanket, you know, and, you know, sometimes that can be the case with these wines. You know, I do like the image of this, you know, kinder, gentler minotaur. You know, I think that's like a perfect metaphor for the sake of this kinder, gentler Spanish red wine.

You know, I think, you know, it's one of those, you know. Things that you can stereotype, you know, and we're talking Spanish wine outside of Galicia. Galicia is kind of like a different country. But, you know, the Spanish wine of popular imagination is, you know, from a just the air playing, you know, it's like Don Quixote, you know, chasing, chasing windmills, old bush vines, you know, densely tannic and, you know, beefy. And this is kinder, gentler, you know, you know, it's almost like you can, you know, squint and see the outline of that line. But, you know, it's like we've made this conscious effort to. To reign it in and play nice. You know, it's like Tony Soprano at a tea party. And I think that's that's kind of cool for the sake of this one.

And, you know, I think it's still, you know, has, you know, some of the qualities that we expect of tempranillo. I don't think we totally run roughshod over varietal character, but it definitely bears that carbonic imprint. Onward and upward now. And moving to the central coast of California. So this is from Saltman back to stomping grounds of, you know, our kind of opening poet, Robinson Jeffers. And this one comes from a smaller subzone of the central coast. So it should be said more broadly that in California, as far as growing, growing conditions go, proximity to the coast - unimpeded access to the cooling influence of the Pacific is more important than latitude. So we are going to be in a region now that is cooler than the Napa Valley.

Many degrees of latitude to the north. So you can see the Napa is off the map to the north. I hope no one's yakking. We are going to be in Ballard Canyon. So you see Ballard Canyon is this arrow that points to kind of the center of the donut here in San Diego. This is the center of Santa Barbara. So you're along the coast. Santa Barbara's beautiful. Santa Barbara is sideways country. We're not drinking Merlot. Yada, yada. Ballard Valley north. South oriented. It is open to the Pacific for the sake of a cooling influence. So you get this fog that is literally pulled into the valley here, the canyon, but only makes it so far. And This Particular.

Particular Um Estate Stoltman is at the northern end of the valley, so there's a little less of that uh influence of the fog there because they're fully more fully removed from the Pacific um it uh kind of originally developed as a side project of a lawyer, so this is Tom Stoltman, he's a cool-looking dude, so I thought I'd share his picture um uh. His son actually kind of made Stoltman what it is um uh. Tom grew grapes; he had this weakness for Roan grapes, Syrah in particular does really well in Ballard Canyon, but also Sangiovese; he's this huge champion of Sangiovese uh Sangiovese is Italy's most widely grown red grape, goes into um uh Chianti, goes into Brunello, goes into Vino Nobile, the multiple Chano um uh.

It is both a high acid and and kind of a tannic red um uh, and you know we love it for that um uh, and uh Tom loves it for that, and uh became one of its champions in California um uh. We're drinking Love You Bunches which is made in a carbonic style um I adore this wine um I should have brought I should have purchased more of it; I didn't realize it was as limited as it is uh this is fully carbonic, obviously we're having fun with the fact that um we're dealing with whole bunch fermentation um. This wine to me speaks to the fact that again. you know we're taking this technique that has become synonymous with um you know uh beaujolais and by extension this pioneering you know kind of forefathers of the natural wine movie making movement and we're  taking it to you know this different corner of the world and um you know we are applying it to a grape that we don't typically associate with california and making something that's just like really delightful um now uh saint jabesi um you know uh is a very perfumey grape in in certain iterations um it can express a lot of cherry fruit um it can express you know this kind of tomato plant herbaceousness um for me um uh this this one is is uh you know uh bringing some of the notes of the party um uh but in a fresher fruitier style um then you know i would typically expect certainly of chianti which you know um uh is is a wine you know uh saint jabesi and you know it's it's tuscan context a wine that leans more uh heavily into tannins uh so you're taking um you know uh feverish notes uh almost like you're at like a presidential debate um uh what do you have uh for the sake of your note taking is he the only one making saint jabesi there uh he's certainly not i know the folks at tandem make saint jabesi um uh um you know there are some other uh folks uh That works with um the grape, uh, in California, Syrah is really kind of the grape of choice in Ballard Canyon, um, our friend Peter Passan makes Syrah there, um, pretty sassy.

Um, it's more Roan varietals that have flourished there than central Italian ones, but, uh, and his son, um, uh, and uh daughter-in-law had become a champions of Saint-Jeannisi, um, I really adore the wine that we brought in from him too, um, which is Trousseau, um, Trousseau, uh, as those of you who tuned in for our Juror class will remember, um, is, is a grape that uh thrives in eastern France but it equally thrives as Bastaria, um, in Portugal, um, in Porto, of all things. uh so it's great mystery um uh for the sake of you know um especially in the middle ages how these you know cultivars land um from one corner of the continent to the next but um uh that's a wine um if you want to try it on it's maybe partial carbonic so again we spoke earlier about um you know semi-carbonic versus full carbonic and it should be said that full carbonic is this like asymptotic uh limit you know you can never really get full carbonic um because at some point you know some of the grapes are crushed there's some juice um unless you like seal grapes in like a plastic bag with co2 that would be full carbonic but but that Would be a really weird way to make lime, um, there are some people like in Australia that do that because Aussies are crazy and they're willing to try anything for the sake of the science of wine, um.

But you know I never quite get to full carbonic, um semi-carbonic is a decision that you know, um, you know maybe we'll just let this happen naturally uh for a portion of our fruit and we won't crush it or very often producers will do the same. It's called like the lasagna method of winemaking where the whole clusters between um layers of crushed grapes um in a fermentation vessel um and they'll get some um, of that you know uh carbonic. Influence, um, but, um, it's, it's much more, um, muted, um, and that also tends to uh create a fermentation that is a little slower, that happens at a lower temperature, um, so there are a lot of different ways to work with this technique, and, um, I think it has this identifiable imprint for the sake of flavor, and I think it's something that you know if you're hip to, you can start to recognize in wine, um, in a really uh fun and fluid way, which is kind of a good segue, uh, to our white wine here, um, I just think this is fucking delicious, um, like I said, um, I wish I had committed to more of it, um, I didn't realize it was, uh, as limited as it is, but you know at The end of the day, wine and agricultural product, and you know, um, you know we equally celebrate the ephemerality, uh, of it all, um, for the sake of, um, you know it's kind of like a the ultimate like, uh, momentum mori, so this like long renaissance creation of like it's like Hamlet has skull on his death, so you know being reminded of our own uh ephemerality is not always a bad thing, um, at any rate, um, that was a deep dive into our own mortality for the sake of, uh, Sangiovese from the Ballard Canyon, any comments on that one? So, uh, no I think I think it's perfect, um, can you talk a little bit about the acidity there's a, um, it's texture and then and i think like i'm saying drying out or it's really like tingling i think someone said springy is that yeah so you have a few things happening there so um which i find fascinating so on one hand um carbonic maceration tends to dampen your perception of acidity in wine which is to say um the acid levels themselves are lower empirically um so um measurable um uh acid uh particularly malic acid uh as a constituent in um uh you know kind of like uh the um uh kind of winemakers will measure acid in grams per liter uh titratable acidity uh the same way they measure uh residual sugar in grams per liter um and that goes down um uh which Means pH rises, um, uh, so empirically, um, that lowers, but tannins also diminish, so um, uh, that kind of works against the perception of acidity, so the higher the tannins, you know they kind of affect the way we perceive acidity in wine, um, uh, so the fact that tannins aren't there, you know, makes us perceive something as kind of like fresher and brighter, uh, than we would otherwise. You also have glycerol produced; glycerol is alcohol sugar, um, it doesn't always register as sweet for us but um, it registers as weight on the palate, um, acetaldehyde also will register as weight on the palate; acetaldehyde, famously produced.

in sherry among other things so um and then you get a lot of dissolved co2 in these wines as a conscious one making decision um uh when they're bottled that gives them this kind of like pin prickle uh acidity um so you have all these dimensions but i find you know with a lot of these carbonic macerated wines that you know that glycerol in particular registers as weight um on the palate um uh you know uh and the you know the acid is is fresh um but there is something you know kind of a little uh springy um about the wines for lack for lack of a better word and um you know they are fresh but they're not austere and you know it's not this Like citric fruit that you're embracing, you know, um it's this, you know, kind of crunchier quality of fruit, um that you get, um from these wines and there is something that's uh, uh, you know, uh texturally a little chewy, um about them, uh on on top of that, um and that brings us, that's a great segue, honestly, for the sake of this wine. So, um carbonic maceration is a technique that is, um, you know, deployed for the sake of red wines but in this instance we have a renegade winemaker, the very name of this winery 'Cold Folk' is an idiomatic German expression for basically like a, um, iconoclast, uh, one who marches to the beat of his own drummer. Um, which as someone that you know, um, pours fine wine at a Michelin-starred restaurant in a transparent white t-shirt appeals to me, um, so thank you for that, uh, viva boy if you're ready to do that, um, you're going to look at us; he's, um, guy we're going to see you in about a minute; he is a pretty aggressive brandy opener; he's one of the trainers down there in the Schwarzenegger chef recruiter and Chrysalis, a high-class modern beer, very widely grown grape throughout um uh Central Europe, ironically, Riesling not related to Riesling itself; um, Stefan is the gentleman with the long hair and the beard in the middle here. um that you know um he's a bit of the you know goose for the sake of our duck duck goose game um uh it definitely looks like the cold book um uh in the mix um but what i love about his wines is that they are um you know uniformly um you know wines uh that are made in a non-interventionist style and you know he embraces carbonic maceration he embraces a lot of these you know kind of trends in natural winemaking but he does so in a a very expert um sophisticated uh way where uh the art is not superseded by the artifice and uh there's not a rodent crawling out of the bottle and the wines are matter-of-factly delicious um uh and again you know it's all serving an end you know at the end of the wine it's all serving an end you know at the end of the wine it's all serving an end of the day whatever you're drinking i feel like you know whether it's a wine made in a more conventional way or one made with carbonic maceration you know the wine should stand on its own two legs and you should have a sense of its own um you know uh deliciousness or just its own completeness um uh you know without um you know stripping it back um and you know uh you know justifying it for the sake of its means of production uh which is to say that you know you shouldn't have to say i like this wine because it's made in a carbonic style um or more importantly i shouldn't like this wine because it's made without sulfur or you know uh because it's quote-unquote natural um you know dogmatically you know the wine should um stand on its own two legs it should cohere in and of itself and i feel like uh everything that sip on does um uh succeeds admirably uh to that end and this particular wine sees a very long uh period um uh a very long uh cold carbonic maceration talking nine weeks um for the sake of 70 percent brunner belt leaner and three percent and 30 percent of el trusling um and he does that because he wants to extract Some of the more interesting, you know, qualities that the skins provide in wine, um, some of those, uh, more dynamic sets of flavors, um, and textures, but without giving an orange wine that aggressively tannic dimension, 

um, and, uh, I think this is hugely fascinating, especially having tasted some of the carbonic reds, because, um, I think you know, some of the flavors that are readily identifiable in the red wines are readily identifiable in this orange wine, uh, in a way that, uh, you know, for me, uh, is, is vindicating for the ways in which, you know, methodology can inform, uh, what we would taste in the glass, but really, um, is confounding, uh, The ways in which we tend to, um, distinguish what we're tasting in the glass and what we're not tasting in the glass, um, and I think that's super cool, um, uh, for the sake of this particular offering, uh, any thoughts on this one, zoe, yes, um, this one is also, um, like pairs well with pop rocks and jelly beans, um, I think that also is a comment on its acidity and that, that texture and that chewiness, um, I do want to go back to something that you said where you related Beaujolais to beer, um, and exactly what you meant by that if if in terms of like consistency or with, um, maybe it was perhaps when you were talking about um flaws in wine and that like Brett. And mayonnaise is like totally normal to have in some beers when it's that Brett becomes too much in wine, it becomes a flaw. I just i kind of missed exactly what that was, yeah, I mean there were there were a lot, there were a lot of um, you know, kind of uh, parallels to tease out there though, um, uh, in that context of wines, I was speaking in Miller High Life terms, just for the sake of uh, something that is uh, easy drinking, um, uh, you know, something that is thirst quenching and um, matter-of-factly delicious, and you don't have to linger over uh too long to enjoy. You know, it should be said at the end of harvest almost all winemakers that I know, um, you know. throw back uh beer uh because wine starts to feel like work um and and you know a lot of these glue blue wines are uh they serve that place you know uh they're fresh they're easy to drink and they're easy to drink and they're easy to drink and they're drinking um and uh you know the best of them aren't you know uh one-dimensional uh the best of them are you know um multifaceted but um they are still um you know wildly refreshing in a way that you know allows you to turn off a little bit um and and i think that's important um i think the is something else entirely um i think texturally um is definitely of um uh you know the same species um as as the wines we enjoyed i think you know texturally um you know going from this uh going from the sangiovese to um uh the colfo you know they very um uh much you know kind of vibrate on the same wavelength and and i think that's really interesting to me and really exciting to me um uh and um you know i think that's one of the things that orange wine does uh really beautifully you know it brings um into the mix a lot of flavors that we more typically associate um uh with white wines um but uh texturally um it plays in a way that red wine does and that allows it to um you know go up against you know some fattier traditions uh than um you know a you know more conventionally um uh styled uh white wine uh would be would be able to fascinating um all this talk about beer and miller high life and then all i want to think about is chio chiaro and spiked into miller high life i hear you um could you talk a little bit more about the um the wildfires in spain and how that affected the wine industry there uh i wish i could speak to that more um uh kind of expertly uh so um wildfires are um uh you know sadly because of global warming um a um a more um regular feature uh from vintage to vintage um across the world particularly in drier corners of the world and uh spain with the exception of green spain uh is universally a drier corner of the wine world um it's hard to talk about fires anywhere um unless you are on the ground um you know wildfires in particular are you know uh maddeningly um fickle um for the sake of burning a lot and not another um obviously smoke taint um is uh a more uh widely uh kind of uh dispersed um you know issue um for the sake of those wildfires but even that um you know depending on you know prevailing winds uh is is hugely inconsistent um and uh so i i can't knowledge knowledge really speak uh from from one producer to uh next about how um wines were affected you know i found In my own conversation with producers, that I've continually been surprised for better and worse at how um particular regions or particularly wineries in regions that you know I thought were decimated by fires were were affected. Um, you know it should be said that you know carbonic maceration is not a magic bullet, um, when it comes to smoke taint, um, you know you need intact whole clusters that are you know pretty pristine, um, to work carbonically, um, you know the only out, um, for the sake of smoke taint is, um, you know the only out, um, for the sake of smoke taint is rosé, um, you know so, um, at some point you need, um, you know uh influence of you know the flavors you get out of the skins and if you're worried about smoke taint in a wine um then you know even carbonic maceration um will not um you know allow you uh to to you know make something that is more extracted than than you would be able to otherwise hey bill what about ring light uh though yeah the the um i think this is like a subtle cue from the staff uh not so subtle yeah that uh i need to i i really need to get one of those fancy like uh ring lights uh for the sake of uh uh this is like the uh the twilight sexy lighting um portion of our um although i was i was actually very excited and it should be said That our service director Shauna Driscoll is very excited that, um, we got some press recently uh that favorably compared our lighting and our scheme at the restaurant to a movie theater. So this is this is my movie theater lighting, yeah, that's wonderful. Um, do we expect just there to be well, I guess this question kind of answers itself but global warming is probably not slowing down anytime soon but the accumulation of soil, or ash in the soil, is that something that compounds very noticeably from year to year or does it just take or is it a little bit more gradual um um it's kind of your cross purposes there so, ash in the soil. Or ash in the ash on grape skins, bad ash and soil can be very good um for the sake of fertility um, especially in kind of smaller layers so um yeah so uh that's you know I never want to invite wildfires but actually like wildfires in the context of you know um uh like old growth forest you know can be um you know the the process of um you know kind of um burning down can be a part of renewal in as much as it can be you know actively devastating, so um very different um accumulated in the soil than it is on on grape skins, but global warming is not going anywhere; we're all you know uh we're all you know, especially in the context of wine making.

Um, just coming to terms with um and you know, and trying to to create a And, you know, I think that I like the place where winemakers, a lot of winemakers come from. It's less one of like, you know, kind of chicken littling, you know, it's less one of, you know, we're all fucked, you know, let's, you know, wear our tin foil hats and retreat to our bomb shelters. And it's one of, you know, we've been making wine, you know, in our corner of the world for generations upon generations. We will continue to make wine because it is, you know, part of our culture. We consider it part of a life well lived. You know, our challenge is to continue to do so in a way that will allow our children to, you know, perpetuate this tradition and continue to do so, given, you know, these new dynamics on the ground.

And, you know, we are very, very much in the Anthropocene epoch and, you know, a rise in temperature of, you know, we're looking at now two to three degrees centigrade by the end of this century. We are very much in the Anthropocene epoch and, you know, we are looking at now two to three degrees centigrade by the end of this century. We've got a lot of people leftover, that's never I think. The cool thing about viticulture is that it is kind of like the perfection of agriculture, as I see is the highest form of agriculture. And, you know, it is one of the most studied forms of agriculture, at least insofar as you know the taste of the end product is concerned.

And, you know, so we have more tools at our disposal there than we do for the sake of other forms of viticulture. And so, you know, it's a place where I believe in human ingenuity. And, you know, we won't be making the same kind of wine at the end of this century that we were making at the beginning of this century. And that will be deeply sad in a lot of places. But we still will be making great wine. And there's more great wine available now than there ever has been. And, you know, that is worth celebrating. All right. So I'm going to close things out. So bring it back to Glue Glue. You know, I think it's interesting for the sake of this discourse. We, you know, tried a bunch of different wines.

We tried reds. We tried whites. You know, and, you know, we thought about, you know, to what extent is this flavor profile attributable to this technique in carbonic maceration versus, you know, this hodgepodge of grapes and regions. And, you know, at the end of the day, you know, it's like the Forrest Gump. It's a bit of both kind of thing. And, you know, I. I think I think there's truth to that. You know, I think at the end of the day, it should be a bit of both. But, you know, wine is equally many things. And so what if, you know, a wine tastes more carbonic than it tastes like California San Gervasi or, you know, you know, Spanish Tempranillo or even, you know, Gamay from Beaujolais.

At the end of the day, if it's delicious and it's affordable, then that's worth celebrating, too. A lot of the producers that we've dealt with, particularly Stoltman and, you know, certainly Korniak. And. Marcel Lapierre, his nephew at this domain, you know, they make a lot of different wines, you know, so they'll make, you know, the beer of wines, but they'll equally make more age worthy wines as well. And wine doesn't have to be one thing to be enjoyable, you know, and glue glue doesn't have to be one thing either. It doesn't have to be an excuse to drink a whole bottle yourself can be, you know, you know, an excuse to appreciate wine as a part of the fabric of life, as part of, you know, a healthier life for the sake of something.

That, you know, you can drink a bottle of and not feel like shit, you know, the next day. So this is from Lee Campbell. She's a kick-ass song in Brooklyn, but I like what she says about, you know, this notion of gluggable wine. The soul of glue isn't raging and gluttony and overconsumption. It's access to quality, health, and moderation. So cheers to that. Cheers to you all at home enjoying these festive gluggable wines on this holiday weekend. Happy motherfucking holiday. Hanukkah to all you Maccabees in the crowd celebrating, you know, keep that dreidel spinning. Keep, you know, those chocolate coins flowing. All my love. Salud. So you're the best.

I praise you. I praise you. I praise you