Chardonnay Revisited: Straight from the Source in Burgundy

Class transcript:

Welcome, welcome one and all. It is Sunday. Thank you so much for joining us. It's gone from gorgeous to gray here in Washington, so hopefully you don't feel like you're missing out on a gorgeous spring afternoon. At any rate, whether you're joining us from the park or from the basement, we are thrilled to have you with us. Particularly stoked for our most luxurious lesson yet, devoted to one of my desert island wines. Yes, desert island wines, plural. You know, why limit yourself to one when you're on that island? But, you know, certainly if you asked me, you know, what I would prefer, you know, given, you know, a Napoleon-esque style, you know, exile, Whiteburg would be right at the top of the list.

Riesling would be up there too, but, you know, Whiteburg, certainly one of life's great joys. Increasingly expensive. There are opportunities still in Burgundy to find great values, but they tend not to be the more fabled, legendary, historic names. They tend to be, you know, undervalued gems from off the beaten track. I think that's what's left to say. I feel like a little bit like Oprah, for the sake of this flight. You know, I wanted to write in my best, you know, kind of like Oprah, look under your seat. Corton Charlemagne! Kind of voice. And you're getting Corton. And you're getting Corton. We don't have the budget for that. But Corton is, you know, a wine I think I've tasted, you know, two, three times in my life. Even in the trade.

uh that probably speaks to the fact that you know i've spent my um wine career looking for you know the idiosyncratic you know looking for the off the beaten path um but you know corton uh montrachet you know these these are benchmarks and um sadly uh they are equally luxury goods but they always have been um you know uh there's a former french owner of romany conti lost his head um and you know i imagine the current um you know french owners if there was a revolution you know there'd be some heads lost uh as well but um at any rate uh the wines are worthwhile professional benchmarks and um they are luxuries as such you know um they shouldn't be tasted uh every night but um when they are uh they deserve to be celebrated um so we have not one uh but uh two flights and we're going to work uh in reverse order and i'm going to try to power through um the kind of broader regional showcase so two flights of three wines um the first devoted to kind of the northern and the southern extreme and then this like Lovable, idiosyncratic outlier, um, in Alagote, uh, albeit from, um, the aforementioned, um, alluded to Albert de Volaine, um, current proprietor of that very Roman conti, uh, but we're going to start, um, with the Boussiron, so we're going to start with the only non-Chardonnay, um, in the mix, and then we're going to move to, uh, the second one which is a Boussour, and then we're going to move to the third one which is a Boussour, um, for a better understanding, um, of this whole limestone thing, um, we're, you know, this is like a calcium carbonate fetishist group today, um, and, uh, we're going to seek to understand, uh, why, uh, we all have a love jones um for Limestone, as it concerns Burgundy, as it concerns Chardonnay, then we're going to head all the way to the south, uh, to we say so.

We're going to kind of like you know set you know the barometers, you know, on the Steelys, the Stonians of Shards; on the other hand, you know, the most opulent of the bunch, at least as we know some of the best and it exists in Burgundy. And then we're going to dive headlong into the Golden Triangle to the vertices: Pouligny, Marceau, and then we're going to close things out with Corton Charlemagne because after you drink the Corton, you know, where do you go? So that will be the mic drop for our sake today. Thanks again for joining us. Without further ado, I'm going to kick it off with a bit of verse. Hello, Zoe. Fine houseplant situation on top of the bridge there, big ups. Thank you very much. Excellent.

And Zoe is living in the lap of luxury because she gets to enjoy these wines on the house because we have to compensate her somehow for her amazing commentary and remarkably sweet tasting notes. And she's doing this gratis. Thank you so much, Zoe. Thank you also to everyone. Thank you also to everyone who joined us for Tuesday's event with AA Lead to benefit Asian American youth leadership and empowerment in the D.C. area. We're also doing an event with Kevin Tian of Moon Rabbit, chefs against AAPI hate. And the bit of verse, you know, comes out of the spirit of that event, but, you know, celebrates a life worth living equally. The poet here is Arthur Say. He is a Chinese American poet.

There's never been an Asian American poet laureate, which is deeply sad because there's a great tradition of Asian American verse. This is Residence on Earth. As we approached the front door, I noticed grills on the windows, bullet pockmarks on the wall. Inside, a maid served a salad, potato, and cilantro soup, and I saw in the amphitheater above Medellin the stage where 28 poets read, clouds gathered in the ensuing crowd. I expected the 5,000 people to rush out. Instead, a sea of umbrellas appeared, and people swayed under them. When the readings resumed, a poet stood, chanted in Vietnamese, and when I stepped up to the podium, two rivers flowed down the steps to the far right and left. As I read, our emotions resemble leaves and alive to their shapes; we are nourished.

I understood how poets from all over the world had come for peace, solidarity, justice. And when my host and reader of my poems in Spanish, invited me into his home, I saw one way to live during our residencia en la tierra. I love that, you know, notion of one way to live. I equally love that line, 'our emotions resemble leaves and alive to their shapes we are nourished.' I feel kind of the same way about wine, you know, alive to its shapes. We are nourished today in the company of friends, and, you know, they have so much to offer us in terms of history and place. This is kind of a lesson in two parts, you know. We love the historical deep dive. We love the geological deep dive, and Burgundy is the place to do that.

So you are not going to get a short strip on history, be it human or, you know, geological. But we are going to flip things. You know, it is tempting, you know, just because, you know, we have, you know, been on, you know, in this universe for a hair's breathe at geologic time, it is tempting. So, thank you. You have a room. I will be in there for an hour. You can come, you know, talk. Start with you know, millions of years of recorded history and then narrow our scope but you know we're going to start with you know our uh thin sliver of uh recorded history um and uh understand Burgundy as a historical region as it developed um for the sake of our first flight of wines and again we're going to begin um with uh Alagote um Uh white Burgundy almost exclusively comes from the Chardonnay varietal but there is a historic um exception uh to that rule uh in uh in Alagote and that's where we're going to begin um our journey. I'm going to share a map here um you can see Burgundy um you can kind of get a sense of uh you know where it is within France um subdivided uh between four major um sub-regions uh as it were and I particularly adore about this map that they don't lump um Beaujolais in with Burgundy which is something that occasionally happens uh Beaujolais is its own animal um it is closer to the Rhone uh stylistically uh spiritually in my mind.

Than it is to burgundy, um so let's lop it off um and let's limit our consideration to uh burgundy proper uh you see chablis uh at the top of the corner there um and then you can kind of get a better sense of where it lies in uh within the larger country on the map to the bottom and left chablis actually closer to paris uh than it is to dijon um so uh separated um you know uh by uh you know leagues uh by day travel or so from uh dijon and from uh or at least uh in you know medieval times um you know now it's just train ride uh at any rate um very distinct um they only work with chardonnay there um uh the cote d'or is the home of both pinot uh and chard um burgundy has always been uh at the crossroads um of uh europe so if you wanted to make your way north and south um you kind of have had to pass through uh burgundy because you're at the edge of two mountain ranges uh the massif central on one side the alps on the other uh so it's a bit of a funnel um that channels people along the river zone which is itself a tributary of uh the rhone um you know uh today you're less concerned with the river more concerned with the high-speed train or the rn74 um which is the uh the highway uh that famously uh snakes its way um on north to south within burgundy and gave its name to a really great Burgundy, uh, wine bar that sadly, um, just got bought it for $75 million, but neither here nor there, um, I'm sure a restaurant's still likeable to, um, good honor for getting into the restaurant business. The Romans, uh, conquered uh what is now Burgundy in the year, uh, 51, and you know we usually start our story there with the Romans for the sake of winemaking, but they arrived, um, and I encountered a pretty vibrant winemaking culture, such as it was, so the Celts already making wine, they had their own wine god, um, I'm sure the Romans built their own, um, and built their own shrine Sabaccus, but uh the celts had their own um uh winemaking history predates uh the roman era there um and uh the locals um you know short of you know times of war didn't have a much you know need for um roman uh wine imports um you know uh they produced enough uh for their for their own drinking um outside of of times of deprivation um the first real shout out for burgundian wine like you know hey guys um you know you got to get in on this um this is more than just a local product you know this could be a uh a marketable um good uh saying 312 uh but by uh 591 um so you know we're emerging um out of um you know the uh kind of uh post um you know roman hangover um and uh you know their references to the wines of burgundy rivaling the wines of falernian um uh flash forward um to the father of modern europe this is uh charlemagne um we're going to kind of begin and end the lesson uh with charlemagne i like this mosaic because you get um uh spoiler alert uh sense of his white beard um which will be very significant um to the legend uh of uh the vineyard that bears his name uh that we're going to close things out with but we will leave him with his white beard uh for uh the time being um charlemagne uh when he uh you know kind of took over europe um uh and consolidated the holdings of the Frankish kingdom really ushered in this period of peace um that began uh you know the early Middle Ages and and um you know kind of ultimately spilled over into this you know um age of learning um that we think of as the Renaissance that actually began much earlier uh than is commonly given credit for um and uh he um kind of increased the uh influence of the church throughout uh his domain um and that's significant for the sake of the religious orders um that uh took place in the last century um and uh and uh and uh and uh and uh and uh. Uh and rooted in Burgundy, really started to develop winemaking there. So, you know, the region is dotted with religious references.

It is dotted with old religious orders. That really began in 910 when the Benedictines, you know, kind of started, you know, just kind of initially, you know, got a toehold in the region. But I like this note about the rule of St. Benedict, and, you know, it gives you kind of a better understanding of why wine was so central to monastic life. But they said the rule of St. Benedict permitted a modest daily ration of wine. This is modest by medieval standards. Modest at the time would have been lower ABV wine, and it would have been like, you know, a couple gallons. That's my kind of ration. At any rate, and then you get more on your holy days, on your feast days.

Important guests who stayed at the monastery had to be suitably entertained, for they might one day repay the monks generously for their hospitality. Monasteries usually had their own vineyards, and they were often donated. Bishops wanted wine not just for the day-to-day running of their households, but also as a status symbol. So, you know, not only is it an essential part of the Eucharist, God's blood, but it's this great marketing vehicle. You know, come try out this new religion. We got wine, you know, and as such, it, you know, kind of assumes a central place, not only in the religious life of these monasteries, beginning with the Benedictines, but really, you know, you know, pushed even further with the Cistercians a few centuries later.

The Benedictines were, you know, kind of given over to excess; Cistercians, much more head-down, studious types of vineyard workers. I love this note about, you know, Burgundian history, thinking about, you know, this progression from, you know, these monastic orders through to aristocratic holdings, you know, through to negotiant families. This is James Sly, who's an amazing New York psalm, teaches wine classes. He has this site called Children's Atlas to Wine, which I'll reference. He's a really gifted artist. He actually worked at Big Bear Cafe for a summer. So he's kind of has local roots, but he says to write about Burgundy is to write about complicated inheritance law, to accept the presence of the aristocratic participle day and of noble titles, to acknowledge the role that negotiant families and nobility and church ownership have played in forging and in the end commercializing this storied region, which in the last decade had become at the top level of an expensive object of international connoisseurship, whose closest analog is the high-end fine art market, and to take into account spiraling auction prices, gray market resale, purchasing for collection rather than gustatory enjoyment and outright forgery that wine as fine art implies. So he kind of encompasses the full history of Burgundy there through to the modern era. But, you know, the wines themselves, you know, before they were, you know, widely forged and impressing, you know, clients at, you know, you know, I guess, you know, these raucous law, you know, law firm dinners and wherever people, you know, can afford to drink, you know, thousand plus dollars of bottles of wine, you know, they were the marketing vehicles of their own era for the sake of these monasteries.

The Vouillamaze Dukes of the Dujac Burgundy further pushed the region forward beginning in the 14th century. They outlawed Gamay as an overly vigorous grape of the Pommard Pevenage, and they really saw through the continued revolution in vineyard proliferation. Practices, you know, a lot of the things about vineyard work that we take for granted for the sake of limiting yields and training vines and identifying the best sites came to us first in Burgundy. Now, flash forward through the French Revolution, assorted noblemen lose their heads, the vineyards pass, the vineyards that were once the clergy's passed to, you know, the peasants, and are further subdivided through Napoleonic inheritance laws among many different sons, which is why you have the present situation in Burgundy, where you have a region defined by vineyards, and they're classified according to terroir.

So it's not the case as in Bordeaux, where you have, you know, these commercial châteaux, and they purchase vineyards that suddenly become class growths. In Burgundy, the land is sacrosanct, it doesn't matter who owns it. But you have many owners for given parcels, sometimes hundreds of owners, you know, in the case of a parcel like, you know, the Clos de Bourgeau, or, you know, dozens of others. For the sake of, you know, the Corton Charlemagne that we're going to sample later. And, you know, row by row, they're all making their own wine, which is why it gets maddening for the American consumer. You have a limited number of grapes, you know, cheaply Chardonnay on the white side, cheaply Pinot Noir on the red.

You know, but the bottles bear place names, you know, not grape names, because this is equally the birthplace of terroir. And the imprint of the land is more important. The grape is a mere vessel. An expressor of that point of origin. These grapes, name dropped, derived first from Pinot, which, you know, legendarily descended from ancient vines, may or may not be. It's, you know, parents are lost to history. It was really brought into being by the monks who, in this marginal northern climate, you know, nailed down the best grape, you know, perfectly suited for, you know, the finest sites in the region that, you know, the most important sites in the region. You know, were able to ripen, you know, this, you know, persnickety red varietal, you know, in a few years out of 10 to make these, you know, epically good wines.

But you had another grape that the peasants were working with other than Pinot called Bois Blanc. And the two intermixed and intermingled despite the best efforts of, you know, the Dukes of Burgundy. And they created all sorts of offspring. Gamay, the aforementioned disloyal grape that was banned beginning in the 14th century, being one of them; but Chardonnay, being another. And Aligoté, being another. Now we're going to start this lesson somewhat contrarily with an Aligoté. It comes from Albert de Villene, who is arguably the most famous winemaker in the region today. He owns Romany-Conti. But he equally makes wine with his nephew and lives in Bougeron, which is itself in the Côte Chalonnais. So let's taste this wine. Let's experience Aligoté. It is considered a less noble grape in a lot of, you know, corners of the country than Chardonnay as such.

But that shouldn't be overstated. Aligoté historically occupied some of the, you know, greatest hillsides in the region. Corton, Montrachet were all planted equally to both Chardonnay and Aligoté. And Aligoté is racy. It's acid-driven. It can be overproduced, as can any grape. But very often it gave acidity. It gave life to Chardonnay, where it was lacking. For those of you tasting at home, you know, and, you know, trying this for the first time, what do you all think of this local specialty from Bougeron? Zoe, what are the thoughts from the commentary about this particular wine? No thoughts yet, but come at me, everyone. I think it's super floral, very delicious. I love how, like, that bitterness from the citrus zest is just, like, so nice and balancing, like, all the flavors.

I think it's a great wine. I think it's a great wine. I think it's a great wine. That really nice fruit. There's, like, a little lemongrass, a little herbaceousness. And then it just, like, kind of feels like biting into, like, a crisp green apple in a way. Yeah, absolutely. And there are a couple different clones of Aligoté. You have Aligoté Vert, which is looked down upon. And then Aligoté Doré is much fetishized. It's the varietal that our good friend, a bear, is working with here. And again, we're at the northern end of the coast, Chardonnay. We are in Bougeron, which is a designation of origin at the northern end of the coast, Chardonnay, which you see here, south of the Côte d'Or.

That is, you know, unique for celebrating this grape and was created in 1998, largely at the prompting of a bear. Because, you know, he wanted a place that was, you know, outside of the limelight. You know, he's an office in, you know, Vaudne. But, you know, he wanted to kick back and retire to quieter circumstances and make this, you know, humble village-level wine, this local specialty, that has persisted stubbornly through to the modern era, something greater than it had been. And he wanted to introduce, you know, the broader audience that, you know, adores his wines to this unique Burgundian specialty. And I think it's a fun, apéritif kind of wine. It ages surprisingly well. This is aged in neutral oak for 10 to 12 years. So, you know, it's a great wine.

It's a great wine. It's a great wine. It's a great wine. It's a great wine. It's a great wine. It's a great wine. It's a great wine. 12 months. It's crisp. It's bright. It's bracing. It's a fun reset of the palate, for the sake of our Chardonnay d'Or divorce, you know, coming up shortly. Now we're gonna decamp from Gouzierun, this kind of unlikely start, but historic and lovably idiosyncratic start to our Burgundian journey. And, you know, go from north to southern extremes. And kick things off in Chablis. Now let's taste this Chablis, so you all have more wine under your belts and then I will wax lyrical about limestone because you'll notice this map of Burgundy soils and limestone is everywhere, you know just various colors and various you know geological eras appended to its name, so you know limestone, limestone, limestone, but you know obviously different shapes and sizes that you know ultimately determine the you know character of each individual site on top of you know the local climate which is influenced by you know northern or you know kind of southern situation. So Chablis, furthest to the north, the most marginal climate, you know they suffered greatly in the latest bout of frost because Chardonnay is a relatively early budding varietal but in good years they make these really racy, live, electric wines on famed Kimmerer gene soils. So what do you dig about this particular offering?

I love the Chablis, it's a lot warmer than I thought it was going to be, a lot riper as well and that like that generosity of fruit one might say still has that like lactic peach-like yogurt going on which I really enjoy but I really like the like the sharpness to it as well. I think that that roundness is really balanced out with its acidity yeah that notion of marginality historically you know average temperatures in Chablis you know you know 10.5 to 11 degrees Celsius historically you know as the world warms a few degrees that makes a big difference for the sake of average ripening and you know so what was much marginal become much less so now as you enjoy a Chablis imagine yourself you know tens of millions 100 plus million years ago in Chablis you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know go in the shallow seas of what is now Central Europe. So this is part of my ongoing Reunite Gondwanaland campaign that I began, you know, a couple weeks ago for the sake of our Jura lesson, but I'm reviving for the sake of Burgundy, because shallow seas equal marine life, equal limestone. I have, you know, more material. I, you know, dug up all the really great quotes, but this is from a wine buyer's, you know, kind of blog online.

That's a really remarkable resource, and I'll send it out to you all. It is deeply nerdy, Dean Alexander being the author, but I love what he says about, you know, something that we take for granted for the sake of, you know, this rock that constitutes in limestone 10% of the bottom. The volume of sedimentary rock, a sedimentary rock, which itself, you know, is about three quarters of all the rock on earth, but just how much marine life has impacted the planet is represented by the vast majority of limestone formations that have grown here, and the story of Burgundy really begins with a sea, a shallow sea, teeming with marine life. Most limestone is credited to biologically produce calcium carbonate that's naturally extracted from eroding shells from sea animals, and this sea life didn't evolve until about 500 million years ago, and that occurred because of a chemical change in seas that enabled sea life to build shells out of a newly available calcium in this, you know, primordial oceanic soup.

But limestone formation, hugely fascinating to me, for every 10 meters of limestone, you're dealing with 100 million years of sedimentary compaction. That's pretty fucking, you know, remarkable. You know, in terms of, you know, the glacial pace that all of these things represent, and, you know, the span of geologic history, you know, such as it dwarfs, you know, our own timeline as a species, but it all informs the wines in this, like, really remarkable way. In Chablis, we are really obsessed with a couple different geological eras, so they talk a lot about this Hemeridgian thing in Chablis. And that is an age within the Upper Epoch of the Jurassic Period. So, you know, dealing with, you know, 150 plus million years ago, plus or minus, you know, 900,000 years or so.

But, you know, what's 900,000 years? And the quality of the rock is informed by all sorts of things. It's informed by the types of marine life, you know, the living water quality, the life of the marine life, the quality of peat that, you know, kind of decomposes there. It's informed by the depth of the sea. It's informed by the wave action of the sea. All sorts of things go into informing the quality of the limestone in a really, like, super, like, dynamic and interesting way. But Kimmeridgian limestone is full of, like, these ancient oyster shells. This is Kimmeridgian limestone from, picture from the Dryen website. So you get all these fissures in this rock, which brings us to, you know, the great Elvis Costello. What's so good about limestone anyway?

You know, question. Well, you know, these calcium-heavy rocks, they give you all sorts of things. They're able to retain water really beautifully, but which is essential for nutrient exchange among the roots of plants. But equally, they, you know, have this upper limit for the water that they maintain, and the rock itself swells. But it only swells up to a portion, and at that point, it actively resists. It resists absorbing additional water. So, you know, it maintains this kind of great Goldilocks level of saturation. Calcium tends to, you know, displace potassium in soils, and as such, and potassium tends to have a way of diminishing acidity in wine. So, wine grown on these limestone soils tends to be racier, leaner. The structure of the soil is really great for grapevines.

It's hard, but not so hard that the vines themselves cannot root. Because, you know, these vine systems, this grape, the bitospinifera that we know and love, that have these really deep vine systems. And then it's disease resistant in a way that is hugely important for maintaining vine health. So, you know, it really creates these optimal conditions for the sake of vine life, and focusing the energy of the plant in ways that, you know, create this bright acid-driven, you know, kind of, you know, flavor profile. One that's fully ripe for the same time. sake of this wine but not flabby which is a minor miracle uh benoit dryan um took over from john paul he's good looking dude um he's just a good looking man um and i think that's always nice to share with the people so um there you go uh for your um you know 12 month calendar of shibli producers i give you uh benoit um onward and upward uh we are moving all the way to the south now um uh so we are kicking it uh my voice broke there a little bit um i apologize for that um but we're moving all the way to the south now and uh headed to uh puy puse so all the audio visuals today um uh we're uh traipsing through to the macon um and a name for the village of the same name i love the macanay i named to drop those values In the Burgundian world, earlier um a lot of them on the white side, uh, are to be found in the Macon which is dominated, not exclusively but mostly, uh, by Chardonnay.

Our star player today, uh, further south, um, equally lined up, heavy, um, but the limestone, uh, you're uh dealing with tends to be a little more degraded, a little less pure, um, and then the exposures here, uh, both easterly and westerly, we're dealing with a western-facing vineyard from uh Olivier Merlon. Sadly, uh, he's an older bloke; I'm not quite the looker, um, that um Benoit is, um, I don't know maybe he does it for some people, um, you know, not my cup of tea, um, on the on the Vineyard on front, but um, looks like a vineyard, um, you know, uh, he's got, he's got that you know, uh, sparkle that wine making, you know, gleam um in his eye, certainly, um, now, uh, what's cool about this one is, uh, this is a vineyard, uh, designated, um, offering, uh, we're dealing with Le Chèvre, uh, here, uh, which is a western facing site, which is somewhat unique, um, in Burgundy because, uh, the main north-south escarpment in the Côte d'Or faces almost universally east, but you can see, um, we're in Puy-Puse named after adjoining villages, Puy and Puse, uh, the hyphens work a little differently to the north, but we'll get there in good time, this is just outside the village of chanteau um which is the uh southerly most village in the region um and le chevier you can see here um uh to the west of the village on this proud slope um uh western facing vineyard vintages soak up the afternoon sun which tends to be uh harsher um than um the uh eastern facing vineyard which uh soaks up the morning sun typically oak alert um this wine sees 10 new oak from 2014 vintage um auspicious vintage um very different uh than uh 2012 um a much higher yielding uh a wine slightly brighter not quite as much concentration as 2012 but a classic uh vintage um a vintage that um uh you know i feel like The winemakers of Burgundy now, um, you know, really um miss uh because uh, you know, it was uh vintage uh, more in line with uh the weather throughout the 20th century as opposed to the weather such as it's been, you know, since 2003, really changed the game there. Zoe, tasting notes, hit me. I love it. It is like, it's funny if you say it's certainly the most rich of this line.

I have like a lot of tropical fruit, particularly like grilled pineapple note to it, which I really enjoy. It's like super lush. I get a little like kernel pop from popcorn. And then it's like, it's nice and creamy, but again, still retains that nice acidity, which I think is going to be a beautiful theme throughout the three of these. Is it too much? You know, does it, does it, does it give the lily, you know? So that's the question. I don't think so, but like on the, on the chat, I will say that most people are saying that it's, it's very creamy or like it definitely, it certainly tastes of oak and that being like the very first like knee-jerk reaction is, yeah, of course. Maybe noting that it's distracting on the plate, but.

I have a little bit of an ambivalence about this wine. You know, I want to try it in the right context. A lot of the wines from the Macomb don't rely as heavily on new oak. For me, the ones that I really adore are the ones that, you know, are more, you know, driven by that opulence of fruit. And, you know, they just kind of, you know, the, the, the oak is, you know, unnecessary as such, because, you know, the fruit itself is, is really a driver of that opulence. You know, this isn't quite discordant. I'd be curious to see what happens to it, you know, even in another few years. You know, I do feel like, you know, on the one hand you have, you know, the, the acidity of this wine and I feel like the oak's not quite, you know, integrated, you know you know, it's, it's, you know, maybe a little disjointed, maybe a little awkward.

And at 10% new oak, it feels like more of a profound new oak influence than I would expect. And, you know, certainly we're going to taste some wines for the sake of, you know, our Côte d'Or, you know, blockbusters that see, you know, even more new oak, but wear, you know, very differently. And there's this notion in Burgundy that the more privileged the site, the more new oak a wine can readily wear. You know, vignerons throughout the region have been pulling back on their, their usage of a new oak. Recently, and I think that's a good thing, you know, particularly for the sake of the whites, you know, but, you know, there's no one way to make a wine from the same site.

And, you know, this is a compelling wine to me and an instructive wine in the context of this tasting. And I spoke earlier to, you know, wanting to define, you know, this northerly and southerly parameter for the sake of Chardonnay and then wanting to define, define this, you know, outside the box, you know, dimension of Algotay, what Chardonnay is not. And, you know, I think we've, you know, kind of, you know, defined our mime box, you know, so far. So, you know, we're really ready to explore everything else in the middle. But, you know, between that southern opulence and the oak, you know, it is a very, you know, worthwhile counterpoint to the Chablis, which, you know, it is wildly different from, for better or worse. But, you know, that's a miracle Chardonnay.

You know, it's not, you know, one grape, it's a million different grapes, and it grows everywhere. And you can do whatever you want. And, you know, that's kind of the fun of it. You know, that's the downfall of it, too. You know, it, you know, kind of jumped the shark for that sake. You know, I blame, you know, the critter wines in Australia, but they're not the only offenders, certainly. But, you know, Chardonnay is malleable, you know, to, you know, its glory and to its detriment as well. Before we move on to our, you know, high pollutant, you know, Oprah, look under your seat, merceau portion of the program. Zoe, do you have any questions from the commentary or additional thoughts yourself about this flight?

No questions yet, but please send them down in the chat if anyone has them. Just a lot of fun talk about this Pooey, preferably how to pronounce it. Um, just a facetious question about if it's mandatory for winemakers to always have moustaches that look like, um, the Natty Bow or the Pringles man. No, I feel like that's, that's a great, that's a great question. Um, and I love where everyone's head is at. Um, you know, I would say, um, uh, typically that's more of a brewery thing, I think, than a vigneron thing. Um, uh, there's some great, um, uh, moustaches in the wine world, um, cheaply, uh, from, um, uh, the Muscadet region. Um, there is, uh, a, a famously, um, um, uh, moustache.

Um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, um, a winemaker whose name is, I think, Jola Drome, um, whose name is, is escaping me. But, uh, you, you do have, you know, some great moustaches in, in the wine world. Um, it should be said, I'll pull up, it's entirely, uh, off topic here, but, um, I, I will pull up a, uh, a picture of, of him in, in two seconds here. Um, and I apologize for getting, so far,  off track, but, um, no, not, not mandatory, not mandatory at all. Um, uh, and I, I feel like there are a lot of, like, different ways to be,, you know, a winemaker, um, you know, for the sake of, of your fashion, uh, in a sense, uh, you know, some, um, you know, winemakers are, are, you know, a little more, um, you know, plain, um, and, you know, they embrace that whole, you know, um, always be, you know, wary of a skinny chef, you know, always be wary of a, a skinny cellar rat kind of thing. And then, you know, you've got, you've got some lookers, um, uh, in the, in the wine world, um, certainly, uh, as well. And, you know, they are all God's children. And, you know, at the end of the day, the, uh, the, um, you know, the proof, uh, is, is in the glass. And, you know, certainly I'd rather have, um, you know, good core tone from, you know, an Ugo, uh, than, you know, Derek Zoolander's, um, Chablis. Oh, this is Gilles Le Dron. Um, yeah, really, really great mustache. I know, I know.

I, I think I, I think I posted this, uh, for our Muscadet class, but he probably has the most famous mustache, um, in, in the wine, in the wine world. Um, but neither here nor there. Um, all right. So, uh, let's bring it back to the Cote d'Or. Um, uh, so we are, um, talking, um, the gold slope, um, as it were the, uh, the spiritual, um, heart of Burgundy. So, um, you're dealing with the region, um, defined, uh, uh, by this kind of northerly southerly, uh, kind of a slip fault, um, as it were. Um, and, uh, that, uh, descends, um, south from Dijon. And, uh, it should be said, um, that, you know, um, you're dealing with the, um, essentially like tectonic forces.

So you have this ancient sea, um, and then you have, and the African plate slamming into the, uh, the, uh, you know, kind of, and the continental, uh, Eurasian, uh, plate. Um, and, and through that action, you get the, the mountain building, the Alps and the folding of what were once were flat layers. And, and really what happened in Burgundy is that, um, it was less folding. So in, in the Jura, you know, well to the east, um, you see much more of the folding of these layers, but, um, in, um, the Cote d'Or, what essentially happened is a slip fault. So, um, along this north-south line, um, uh, a bit of the land, you know, kind of, uh, fell, um, essentially, um, uh, through this tectonic action, um, into, you know, this basin, uh, created, uh, by, you know, these tectonic forces that were, you know, kind of pulling, uh, the land apart, uh, as it were.

And you get the exposure of, uh, these different layers of soil, you know, some of the Pimeridgian, but all sorts of different limestone, uh, um, uh, and, you know, uh, various types of, you know, calcium-heavy, uh, marls, which is, uh, more impure than limestone, uh, in the mix, uh, for the sake of, uh, this exercise. Now, we talked about what's so significant about limestone. Um, you know, I want to thank for the sake of this lesson about, you know, the French notion of terroir, because it really is this geological history for the sake of a place like Burgundy, uh, expressed writ in wine. Um, and, uh, this is another definition, uh, from the same bloke, um, that, uh, I named out earlier, Dean Alexander.

Um, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, while terroir is at its heart the physicality of a place, it is also the acceptance of terroir as a notion that allows its expression in the glass. The concept of terroir asks the winemaker to produce the best wine they can that so truthfully represents the site, while simultaneously requiring the wine drinker, us, to appreciate what each site uniquely brings, uh, to the wine made from it. You know, so, um, you know, it's this push-pull. You know, not only is it necessary, um, you know, to have these sites that express this sense of place, um, but it is necessary to have people that are uniquely attuned to it, and, and that's where we come in, and you can train yourself, um, to become attuned to it.

That's the seductiveness of a region like Burgundy. Um, uh, and, uh, just to circle back to Albert, um, what he says is, you know, uh, it is the ultimate in viticulture. Burgundy is not, uh, the only place where wine has been made for a very long time, but it is the only place where the will to make wine and the will to make wine can be made. And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, has been transmitted from generation to generation through all kinds of difficulties. And I think this is most profoundly, um, uh, kind of, uh, uh, you know, demonstrated by, um, uh, this notion of walled vineyards. So anytime you see Clos on a Burgundian wine label, uh, it refers to an enclosure. Um, uh, Clos means a walled vineyard.

Um, and one of the most famous, uh, one of the first, um, was, uh, uh, founded by a religious order, um, in Chambertin. Um, uh, Champ, anytime you see Champ on a German wine, uh, uh, Champ, uh, Champ, uh, Champ, uh, Champ, uh, Champ, uh, Champ, uh, or not German on a French wine label, it means field, um, is so Chambertin is, is this dude Bertrand. He's got a field for making great wine there. Um, uh, Clos de Besse, um, uh, the, uh, Besse's enclosure, um, uh, the boundaries were established in 630, 630. Um, that's well over a thousand years ago. They haven't changed ever since. They're still making wine under the Chambertin Clos de Besse label, um, uh, you know, over, uh, you know, 1,300 years later, you know, that speaks to just how, how profound these differences are and, you know, how, um, uniquely this region has developed in a way that has, um,

you know, uh, really, um, come to celebrate and understand these differences, you know, from one meter to the next within these vineyard plots. Um, and, uh, you know, over time codified them and celebrated them. Now they've existed, you know, for, uh, you know, ages and ages, there were over 12,000 named vineyards, um, in, uh, Burgundy. Um, they were first classified in an organized way in 1855, the same year that the merchants of Bordeaux went about it for the sake of their, uh, grand exposition. But the names predate that, um, by many moons. Um, uh, the classification is, um, you know, you have your village level or village level wines identified by commune. You have named vineyards. Uh, then you have Premier Cru and Grand Cru.

Um, uh, and, um, you'll notice, um, this is the last bit I will mention before we taste our first wine. You notice very often on these, uh, um, labels, um, for the sake of our Pouigny Montrachet, you see all these hyphens. Um, we saw a hyphen for the sake of our wine from the Macon, Pouille Fusée. Um, in that case, it was two villages that, you know, uh, tag teamed, uh, together, uh, for the sake of their branding, uh, capacity for the sake of the Cote d'Or, uh, the major, uh, the major kind of, uh, portion of, um, you know, our, um, the heart, um, the historic heart of Burgundy, um, which itself is divided into the Cote d'Or, um, and the Cote d'Or, um, uh, and the Cote d'Or, um, and the Cote d'Or, um, to the north.

Um, uh, it's a different kind of marketing gimmick. So, uh, originally it was just the village of Pouigny, um, and, uh, its most famous vineyard was Montrachet. And until, um, uh, 1879 or so, um, the residents of Pouigny were just content to say, you know, I'm from Pouigny. But they realized that if they, uh, you know, doubled down on this association, if they said, you know, um, we are Pouigny-hyphen Montrachet, uh, then people, uh, gave them, um, you know, more credit, for their most famous product. So, uh, throughout the Côte d'Or, you see these hyphens, um, uh, it's the village, uh, such as it was, and then its most famous vineyard, um, thereafter, almost universally, uh, Grand Cru.

Um, uh, so without further ado, um, that made you wait for a solid 45 minutes, let's taste some fucking Pouigny. Um, uh, Zoe, we're going to work our way backwards. Um, uh, you guys, uh, kill, kill, kill, um, uh, the tasting notes and, uh, uh, everyone seems to be feeling shy for the sake of questions. So, um, you know, fill it up again, uh, for the sake of the haikus. Uh, for the sake of the dirty limericks, um, whatever, you know, form you want to work in for the sake of tasting notes on these wines. Um, don't be shy. Uh, Zoe, um, you're better at this game than I am. Uh, what are your tasting notes for the Champgond, uh, Pouigny, um, uh, as I pull up, uh, the map of the very vineyard itself.

Go. Uh, canned peaches, for sure. Moving to the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so shocked that it is so fresh and has, like, so much energy to it, and it's 2012. Like, I would blind taste this as, like, silly as a 2018 or 2019. Maybe not that, but maybe a 2017. Like, it still can have, I don't know, decades on it at this point. It's beautiful. Yeah, so we're in Pouigny, uh, Montrachet. Um, it's in the so-called Golden Triangle. Um, it's a little different than the rest of, uh, the Côte d'Ivorie, uh, geologically, and I'll speak to that after we taste these wines, um, because you know, it's a little bit different than the rest of, uh, the Côte d'Ivorie, so, uh, you've gotten a heavy dose of millions of years worth of world history so far.

Um, uh, Champgant is at the top of, uh, the hill, um, higher in, uh, elevation, 340 to 360 meters. Um, Pouigny, um, within the context of the Golden Triangle and the Côte d'Ivorie, um, the vertices being Pouigny, Chasson, and, and Meursault, um, is defined by a more kind of steely, uh, minerality. Champgant, like, doubles down on that, uh, steely minerality because it's higher on the hill. Um, the rock tends to be kind of pure, um, uh, in limestone, uh, because of that orientation. Um, it should be said that, you know, Montrachet itself, uh, derives its name from the Mount Rocher. Um, Rocher, um, uh, means, um, actually, uh, kind of, like, uh, denuded, um, uh, a place without vines, such as it were, uh, because the limestone there is so hard, um, that the vines cannot penetrate it.

Um, uh, and you'll see, you know, throughout Pouigny and Chasson, you know, these, uh, rows, these seemingly incongruous rows of shrubland and woods, uh, in the midst of the vineyards. And, and that's just because, um, you know, these areas are essentially unplannable, um, for, for vines. Uh, but, uh, the length on this one, remarkable. 2012 was an exasperating vintage, uh, hail, uh, super wet to begin with. Um, you know, uh, the one of the local vignerons, um, called it Unani Demand. Um, it's a sh*t year, uh, basically, basically. Um, so, you know, they saw it all. And, and, you know, um, Burgundy having this very continental climate, having these extreme winters, having, you know, um, uh, these frost events, having hail in the, you know, climate change is not only a few degrees centigrade warmer, it's also these more extreme, you know, storms that develop hail.

Um, they saw all that in 2012, yet in spite of it all, they had this remarkable, um, late season, perfect conditions. And, um, because of that hail, because of that fickle weather during flowering, you got, like, small batches of fruit. But what, ultimately, came to market was super concentrated and just killer. And it was one of those vintages that people, um, you know, were kind of, uh, you know, coy about when it first came out. And it is increasing in esteem as the wine ages, um, as the wine ages, um, uh, over time. And you'll see that development with vineyards. You know, some are vintages, rather. Sometimes vintages are allotted right out of the gate. And, you know, then they start to, you know, maybe lose a little bit of their luster.

And, you know, concurrently, you'll see vintages that, you know, are such a pain in the ass that nobody wants to fucking drink them. You know, like, don't even, throw, I don't want to talk about 2012. It's been, you know, too much of a pain in the ass. And then, and then, you know, a decade later, if you revisit the wine, it's just, like, you know, suck. This is amazing. Um, uh, Zoe, um, any thoughts, uh, on this one, uh, from the folks at home? Yeah, absolutely. Um, a lot of vanilla, caramel, um, like those, like, toastier, um, notes to it. And a bit of that, like, sweet creaminess. Um, I really want to read, um, Lisa Marie's beautiful poem. 

Um, I, um, also have a few notes about, like, a yellow apple or, like, bruised, um, orchard fruit. Yeah. Um, the chum crane is, like, that, uh, golden sunshine dappled in sabbatical with a sweep of lemon zest to buy them while you walk along a rocky beach. Beautiful. Gorgeous. Let's start doing it in haikus, too. We'll get all the- or a metered verse, if you guys are up to it. Yeah. Uh, uh, at any rate, um, yeah, Pooni, just, just really stunning, um, it's a- it's a really classy wine. Um, you know, it has some of that- it's kind of fun to taste it alongside the Chablis because it has some of that, you know, um, taut, focused minerality, but there's more opulence there.

Um, uh, the winemaker here, Benjamin Leroux, um, he's a total wunderkind. He entered, um, the Lycée de la Colle in Beaune, um, the local winemaking college, um, uh, at the age of 13. How the fuck does that work? Um, that's a fucking awesome- when I was 13, that was not an available career path. Um, I did not- I did not- I did not- I did not- I did not- I did not- no, that was an option, even. Um, I feel like I would have been, like, really on board, and then I wouldn't have to deal with all the service bullshit. I could be making the stuff. Um, uh, my fault, you know, if-if you're out there, Bill and Patty, you know, come on.

Uh, at any rate, um, at the age of, uh, the tender age of 26, um, he, um, you know, rose to, um, uh, you know, come to Helm, one of the most famous, uh, domains, um, in, uh, the region, um, the, uh, domain called Armand, um, and then in 2000, he  launched his own Negociant label. Um, he is- he deserves more fame than he gets, but he makes a shit ton of wine, um, and people, you know, kind of struggle with that when you, like, you know, kind of dilute your brand, as it were, um, but they fly under the radar, um, you know, beautifully, in my mind, and he's a judicious hand with oak.

Um, I think each of these wines certainly see an oak influence, um, typically on the Primer Cruze, it's like, um, you know, about a year of lavage in oak that has an imprint, um, you know, but, uh, uh, you know, uh, one, you know, kind of like second year, third year oak, that kind of thing, uh, typically, uh, for these wines. Um, the, uh, Corton that we're gonna drink, uh, sees it about, you know, a third, uh, new oak, uh, for about 18 months, um, and wears it really beautifully. Um, so there's an oak presence, um, but, you know, um, it's just beautifully integrated. Um, then, uh, we're moving on now to, uh, Meursault. Um, Meursault is this, um, kind of fun underdog.

It doesn't have any Grand Cruze, um, although many people say that, um, you know, uh, it- it certainly has vineyards that are are deserving. Um, Meursault is- is a little different. It's kind of like the beginning of this Golden Triangle, and you can see, you know, the- the, um, the very, um, uh, Pemercure vineyards, which are- are defined by this darker purple. They kind of, uh, descend into a bit of a triangle, and that traces, um, the, uh, kind of line of this, uh, limestone, um, uh, Comblantian, uh, limestone, which is, you know, almost pure calcium carbonate. Um, it is widely quarried throughout the region. Um, it is more important, um, throughout the Côte d'Hanoïde, um, and then it kind of, uh, dips, uh, under Pomard and Bonnet and re-emerges here, uh, for the sake of the Golden Triangle.

And, uh, the- the vineyards here, you know, kind of, uh, coincident with the quarries, you know, so where it's not, um, you know, the rock isn't too hard, um, you know, uh, to plant grapes. They plant grapes. Where it's too hard, you know, they- they make châteaux. Um, uh, we're dealing with, uh, Pérousseau. Um, Pérousseau comes from, um, a Latin word, petrosa. A stony place. Um, uh, you know, Pérousseau is pretty variable. There are a lot of different expositions. Um, uh, it, uh, sits along, uh, this valley, uh, that extends, uh, through to Auxerres and Saint-Romain. Um, and, um, uh, the- at the mouth of this kind of east-west river that they call that the Combes Eddy. Um, the Combes are these, like, uh, valleys that break up this north-south, um, escarpment.

And the French are kind of obsessed with them because, you know, they say the greatest wines come from, uh, along, uh, you know, the-the kind of riparian boundaries of these little tributaries. Um, but, uh, this is certainly a wine that embodies more of that buttered popcorn quality, um, that you get with Meursault. Um, so what, uh, what's your takeaway for the sake of this one? Um, and you can see a La Pérousseau, um, anytime there's a church, you know, that just feels like a good omen. But, um, you are, uh, smack dab in the center of the picture. Absolutely. Um, a lot of notes about butter, um, uh, petroleum, which I definitely agree on as well, um, where, like, it almost gives me, like, an idea of, like, it, like, tasting a little, like, reefling-like in a way, um, like, structurally completely different.

Um, a lot of flint, um, really good note about, like, a really rich salmon, like a butter poached salmon. Um, it's- it's just a lot of, you know, we're going into a more stylistic wine where, like, that nutty, oxidative note can come from. But, again, it's still- still fresh. Like, I get, like, a little orange marmalade. There's not much of a blue cheese going on, but I'm sure with age, that will develop a little bit more. Yeah, I mean, she's got a little meat on her bones, this one. Um, uh, the acid isn't quite as raging as it is in Pouligny. Um, you know, I would say, you know, in terms of longevity, you know, what's the drinking window of these wines? Um, you know, uh, for me, the Meursault is, like, you know, kind of peaking.

I feel like I want to give the Pouligny a little more time, um, uh, to really- to really settle. Uh, the Meursault feels, like, really fully, uh, fleshed out. Um, and, you know, those wines at the top of the hill, um, you know, they do, you know, very often take a little more time to- to relax and unwind. You know, whereas the ones, uh, further, you know, towards the Pied-de-Mont, the foot of the hill, you know, tend to be a little more lush. Um, uh, and, you know, that- that- that notion of, you know, where you are on the hill is something that, you know, um, the French are- are pretty, uh, obsessed with. Um, and, uh, any, uh, notable tasting notes, um, on- on this particular offering or questions, um, about it, so.

Um, I have a few questions, um, that I think are- are, um, relevant right now. Um, in terms of talking about that oak, like, when- what can someone tell from either the label of the bottle or by, like, looking into the producer of when that oak is just too much? Like, when does it turn into cold butter? Something that we've all had really bad experiences with Chardonnay, and then trying to find something in a store can be misleading, and tech notes aren't on the back of every bottle? Yeah, I mean Burgundy's just fickle as fuck. You know, it is a- it's a millionaire's wine. You know, it is, um, equally confounding, hugely disappointing, um, as it is, you know, um, revelatory, um, and, you know, occasionally religious when you have the right bottle.

Um, uh, I follow producers, um, so for the sake of this exercise, I wanted to follow a producer I love in one vintage and come to understand, you know, the specificity of place, um, when it came to these wines, um, uh, for the sake of, you know, buying, you know, offhand, um, you know, find, um, importers that you like. So, um, this is a wine, um, that, uh, so the Benjamin Laurent, um, um, uh, offering, um, it comes from, uh, Becky Wasserman, um, who is the fucking best. Um, uh, Becky, uh, started her career as, um, uh, a barrel seller. Um, she sold barrels to, uh, the merchants of Burgundy and then, um, and- and stateside, uh, honestly, and- and- and developed contacts that way and- and finally decided, like, you know, fuck this, I'm gonna import wine, you know, who wants to sell barrels?

Um, and she's just, like, legendary figure, um, in- in the context of, um, you know, bringing, uh, these- these wines. And- and Burgundy's, uh, um, you know, now the winemakers have really nice cars, but, you know, well into the late 70s, early 80s, you know, very provincial, um, uh, region, you know, very different than, um, Bordeaux that way. You know, Burgundy was always isolated historically, you know, it wasn't near a river. I mean, it is the sun, but it's not navigable as such, you know, it was- it was, um, historically esteemed, but it was always a luxury good because it costs a lot of money to, um, transport the wines over land. 

It hasn't come to international attention, um, more broadly, really, until the last decade, um, you know, uh, when, uh, actually, like, Raj, um, uh, Raj Par, who opened the aforementioned, um, RN, uh, 74 in- in- in San Francisco, he talked about, like, not being able to open that wine bar anymore now because, uh, the wines that he was featuring, you know, a decade ago are too expensive now, you know, and nobody, you know, wants a list that only features, you know, wines that are a hundred dollars a glass, you know. So, um, it's- it's become a luxury good because the wines are made in such, you know, kind of minute quantities, and especially, you know, in these Grand Cru sites, it's not like Bordeaux, where you can gobble up more vineyard land and, you know, slap a, you know, uh, uh, first growth, you know, label on it.

Um, you know, these are limited geographical areas that can only turn out so much wine, um, and, uh, you know, that is- that is both the glory of them and, you know, for the sake of people who love them, you know, the- the- the downfall, uh, will be cool. Um, all right, let's get through, um, you know, the, uh, the granddaddy of them all. Um, uh, the, uh, um, Corton Charlemagne. Um, so we name-dropped, uh, Charlemagne, uh, uh, the king, uh, earlier. Um, uh, the hill's super cool, so it looks a bit like, uh, uh, Tanture du Monc, or, like, reverse-it's like reverse Tanture. So, like, Tanture refers to, like, um, you know, like, 86ing the top of your, you know, your dome, and then you have, like, the hair on the outside.

This is, like, the opposite of that. This is, like, the Bizarro Tanture. Um, uh, and, uh, they- they call the rest is- is Vineyard Acreage. And, um, the village is Alux, um, but Corton is the most famous vineyard. Um, and, uh, the, um, uh, Corton can be both right and red, um, but, um, the, uh, most famous white iteration is Corton Charlemagne. And, um, the legend here goes that, um, Charlemagne's wife got tired of, uh, being embarrassed hanging out with her ladies-in-waiting.

Uh, when drunken Charlemagne, you know, had that, like, red-stained beard action that I'm sure you at home can all relate to, um, you know, in the unshaven, you know, pandemic world. Um, that's just gauche, you know, when your wife's ladies-in-waiting are just, you know, hanging out. Um, you know, you don't want to be the guy, you know, with the red beard. So she was like, dude, you know, get some white wine in the mix. Um, so he planted, uh, this, uh, hillside, uh, to white grapes. Now, um, historically it actually would have been from and to um, uh, which was, uh, thought to be the ancient, um, ancestor of, like, Pinot Gris. Um, uh, there would have been, um, well, uh, through, um, the 19th century as much Aligoté there, um, as there was Chardonnay.

But these days it's just Chard. Um, this, uh, particular, there are a lot of sub parcels of the Corton Charlemagne, um, vineyard. This particular one comes from Les Charlemagne, which is almost due south facing. Um, again, you know, that cross, um, is, it's a good cross. It means, you know, uh, for the sake of our exercise that, you know, we're dealing with land that, um, the Church presided over. Um, and, you know, uh, they, they knew what they were about, um, for the sake of their wines. Um, and, uh, there's a more detailed map here, which I, I really adore, um, for the sake of this offering. Um, and you can kind of get a sense of where Chard is planted versus where Pinot is planted.

Um, uh, so the white, um, being Chardonnay plantings, um, the red being Pinot plantings, um, uh, around, uh, the, um, you know, untancher,r, top of the hill. Um, so it's, finally, uh, an area where they are actually, uh, uh. and you see Le Chardonnay, you know, essentially entirely dedicated to Chardonnay. And what you get a sense of is that the Chard is at the top of the hill and Pinot further down, and that has everything to do with ripening and that have everything to do with the purity of the limestone at the top of these hills. It's a really cool thing called, at the top of Courton-Charlemagne, they just saw a type of limestone called oolitic. That's like the Pee-wee's Playhouse word for all of you at home.

Oolitic, and it comes from a Latin root for egg, and it's got this crazy look about it. So it developed around these eggs, these geological eggs that basically were these calcium deposits around minute shell fragments that conglomerated into this limestone. That gets like pretty hard, but is, you know, a little more fissurable than a lot of other limestone. So it's a really cool thing. And it's a really cool thing. And it's a lot of the other types of limestone that I mean dropped earlier, but it tends to be the top of the slope. And for the sake of the Chardonnay that we're concerning, it grows really well on that pure limestone. And then Pinot likes a bit of the more impure, darker rock further down the slope.

And Courtron's kind of rare in this, you know, being this appellation that equally celebrates them both. You know, typically you have, you know, throughout the Côte d'Azur, you know, like left-handed hitters or right-handed hitters, you know, you have like a true switch hitter in Courtron. And, you know, this is a wine that's renowned for its longevity. Tom Stevenson, who's the Sotheby's wine guy, says it is the most sumptuous of all white Burgundies. I don't know if I agree with that. I feel like Montrachet is kind of like the most sumptuous of all white Burgundies. What I dig about Courton is that it like has tension. Classically, actually, it takes a little longer to come into its own than Montrachet. And what it does really well is it embodies both fruit and mineral, for me, in a really awesome fucking way.

And it just has this like undeniable, like, fuck, that's a good wine, you know, kind of quality to it. Which at, you know, $140 plus dollars wholesale, it should. Thoughts, Zoe? Yeah, this is gorgeous. There's a lot of notes, too. A little bit of like caramel going on. You have that richness. It's completely noted. It's looking like there's like a little bit of that, like, you know, how do I say, like, the crunchiness of like a lemon meringue pie, you know, that like where it's like flambéed really gets to me. I think that it has like grilled lemon to it. There's like a spiced honey. I really like how chewy it is and how deep it is. And I get that like that kernel as well. And this is kind of cool.

It's a cross-section of the vineyard here. So, oolite in broken limestone. There's that word. And then you can see the core tone here. And then further down, ferruginous just means like iron-rich oolites. So, you're dealing with like various levels of impure limestone. And then curly flagstone. I don't know. That's just like, I like that name. That feels like a potential drag queen name, you know, definitely not a punk band name, but it's just kind of a cool sobriquet. And then colluvium is all the shit that rolls down the hill. And it's important to know, too, that you have like various soil depths here. So, we're dealing in, for the sake of this diagram, mother rock. But, you know, what's more important for the sake of these wines is, you know, soil depth.

And at the top of the hill, universally, you tend to get, you know, you know, kind of thinner soils. And then, you know, at that saddle, you get deeper soils. And, you know, typically, you know, those are the most subsistent, you know, kind of silky kinds of wines once you get, you know, kind of further down. I'm an acid freak. So, I typically, you know, like the top of the hill. But you know, the bottom. Like that bottom of the hill typically gets, you know, more money. But, you know, this is all an art project, you know, for us here. And, you know, this is all in art project, you know, for us here.

So, it's like an ongoing performance art piece, it's not actually a revenue-generating exercise, you know, so uh we can afford to, you know, not love the thing uh that you know actually fetches the highest price uh what else you guys have um one of the best questions I've ever actually heard um Sunita just asked but like hot take um is this an animal vegetable or a mineral the core tone I want to add the word fruit in there and then every time I meet a wine particularly if it's blind want to put a wine in like those this is a narrow but like it's a like just trying to think about trying to put this wine like into like a blind tasting with other Burgundies like what would be the thing that makes Portone Parlamin stand up um so Wikipedia says marzipan um you know uh which i totally get um you know i think the you know wiki tasting notes you know the crowd source tasting notes not always the most airy day um you know i like reading tasting notes for this um and it's one of those wines you know you're gonna read more taste i mean if you're a wine nerd you're probably gonna you know it's like the hugh johnson experience where you know you're relying on him to try all these old ass wines you'll never get to try and live vicariously so you're gonna probably read more tasting notes of portone in your life than you try um unless you're like you know in a really privileged position and good on you but um you know the thing that sticks out to me is this combination of um opulence of fruit and and tension um you know so um i think it's actually like kind of cool to taste poigny on the one hand which you know really embodies that mineral um and then merceau which has a little more of that baby fat and then to taste the corton which kind of like you know brings them on their under one roof um uh you know in terms of blind tasting like um you know you would just have to you'd have to spend time with the grand cruz of burgundy and like you know taste through them in a way that um unless you're a private collector um is really hard um but i think like that that like mineral plus fruit thing um that marzipan i would say like um i get a little bit like a pine nut um you know kind of quality of the line um is something that cortone is renowned for it tends to be tighter um and then you know you get a little bit more you know a little more focused in montrachet montrachet is just showy it's opulent and there's different montrachets too montrachet is not one vineyard um even even these you know sites that are you know considered one vineyard they're they're different from top to bottom so like perso that we tried the stony place um uh that wine And Merceau comes from the top of the site, and as you go down, the soils get thicker, um or get you, get you know a deeper, and the wines get, you know, rounder, um, uh, you know. Corton is very different from the other vineyards, depending on whether you're in, you know, that south-facing portion, or you know, it's, it's a pretty massive, um, you know, grand, grand crew, and with a lot of different expositions, you know, you get a sense of that.

And then, um, on either side, those are all owners of various parcels, um, within, uh, you know, this, this grand crew, so you get a sense of just like how much there is to make sense of and Burgundy, which It's why it's kind of a maddening wine for a lot of people, and it's really a wine that you kind of specialize in, like Burgundy people; they're just like, 'it's just like, kind of their thing,' and that's just what they drink. You can spend a lifetime, you know, trying to understand it, you know, it's just granular and specific in that way, um, which I think is super cool, um, you know. I have a little more wine wanderlust than that, but you know there's something profound about understanding you know wine at that level, um, you know, row by row, parcel by parcel, and and that you know happens in other corners of the world, but um, it happens.

Most, um, you know kind of vestigial most, um, zealously, um, in, uh, burgundy than than anywhere else, um, but yeah, I mean, and, and certainly too, I would say that you know um the whites from les Cortons, you know, are different than the whites from les Charlemands, um, and then within les Charlemands, like you know whether you're closer to the the tree line is going to taste a lot different than if you're further down, um, and you know you would have to taste with, um, you know Benjamin Laurel himself, um, to, um, just to be able to taste the wine to, to further understand that, um, and you know hopefully we'll all get there someday, um, but you.

Know for now, just you know happy to uh gain access to the wine um for you know this brief you know fleeting four ounces and and appreciate it as such well. But like that leads into a really good question that was asked, which is: if you are really interested in burgundy, should you follow one producer style that you enjoy? Should you follow a different style of wine that you enjoy? Should you follow a vintage year? Should you follow a village or like an appellation? Or should you go for like just a level so like only the premier cruise and or premier cruise and like only the grand cruise? I mean, honestly, I think all of the above to some Extending, um, you know, depending on what your budget is, um, you know, it's not the case in Burgundy that you know there are, you know, a you know decent number of domain producers, you know.

But I think a lot of people have this really, um, quaint, um, kind of maybe sorry, not not quaint but idyllic vision of a winemaker owning his vineyard, vineyards and making wine at the domain. And historically, the model in Burgundy was driven by small tenant farmers that sold their fruit to larger negociant houses. Um, and Benjamin Laura is a negociant so um, he purchases fruit uh, but he's much more involved on the ground, so he is you know he has his hand in the vineyard he has long-term contracts um with his growers he's you know going to own more land and um all the sites he works with he has his own crew um that he sends out um uh that um you know harvest by hand um so he's like in in the shit in the weeds you know making these wines in a way that um historically didn't happen with some negotiates who just kind of like cynically you know pulled up at a farmer's door and brought like purchased finished wine and then like pass it off as one thing or another um so you know this like notion of counterfeiting um you know uh it just you know um happens you know at you know uh the you know the price points a lot higher uh than than it ever was historically i think it's i think it's great to to find an individual producer they like you know and and follow follow their work um you know because you want to scientifically you kind of want to fix a variable um uh to really understand a place and there is a house style so benjamin laura he's not totally averse to oak um but um you know he's a he um he you know ferments fully with native yeast um but he's not allergic to sulfur um he's not over sulfur in his wines um but you know they're they're not mousy um you know uh you know stylistically they're they're they're You know, in terms of what he picks, you know they're not over ripe; um, you know they're a little more reticent, um, at first and take a little longer to come into their own, I find, than some other wines, but um, they're built for the long haul, in the way that some others uh are not.

So, so, um, I think, you know, finding that house that you like is a really valuable exercise because it allows you to deal in, like, you know, one independent variable, as opposed to, you know, um, switching vintages, fishing, producing, switching too many things at once given time, that makes it really hard to make meaningful inferences about a place. Indeed, if you don't need to worry about the right burgundy, me I know I feel like I haven't tried enough of them. Um, I mean, I really love Corton; there's something like there's something to like good Merceau, though it's just like immediate and available um in a way so it's just like kind of lusty um uh, and and I feel like if I'm going out you know maybe like you know that death rattle you know I want to make it a little more you know and a rival like a little more opulent um you know for the sake of that final sip because you don't have as long to linger with the finish you know when you know the the Guillotines, you know at the weight you want you know something that you know just like is a little more forward um uh you know in terms of like other great white bergs i've had i mean chablis is a different animal but i love like great chablis i mean and they have the same you know primacrew gronkoo thing going on there um but great chablis like the the the gronkoo chablis are just stupidly good um stupidly stupidly good and and there's there's something i like chablis too because um you know for i made this analogy in my written notes but there's something cleansing about it you know uh it just feels like clean you know it almost feels like um last rites or you know like uh you know in the old catholic system buying indulgences you know it's like you know indulgences through wine you know it's it's so cleansing that you know it feels like you know i'm restoring purity uh for the sake of you know um you know deep sixing uh myself so maybe maybe she will use the right the right answer i'm impressed i wouldn't have called that uh what have you what would you say to that corton for all of mine corton oh cool how much corton have you had uh i i am rationing myself i will no no no like no like more broadly like uh across your across your career as a wine drinker um well thankfully at my first bartending At the Jefferson Hotel, um, we had a lot.

You had the hotel money, I got that hotel money, um. They should not have hired me to be a bartender and I learned how to bartend there and they were very kind to me and very patient and I got to drink a lot of Corton Charlemagne and like as a little baby son be able to like organize the wine cellar from like all the girls to Bordeaux, and that's how I memorized them. And it was a lot easier to do that because it was like you know tactile and like anyway I got spoiled, that's that's adorable. Um, uh. I want to toast it out and then I have another like geological deep dive to 

go down, uh, as we as we lose, um, as we lose participants you know by the second but uh uh i hope you all at home uh enjoyed the wines i was uh reticent about um you know uh throwing out uh 12 ounces of wine at 60 dollars um but you know the cool thing is that um you know we live in a world where luxury goods are becoming more out of the reach of um you know mere mortals by the second and you know in the wine world these touchstones these historical touch zones they are you know significant um if you love wine in a certain way so um you know to share them to you know uh throw this kind of marxist redistribution four ounces at a time you know modality out them uh you know hopefully Even at 60, you know, makes them available to a broader audience than they would be otherwise, you know, that's what I was trying to do is just kind of showing how, uh, you know.

But, you know, I'm equally grateful that in this moment, you know, I am in a position to enjoy the ship because a lot of people aren't. And I'm equally grateful for the community that has sprung up around, you know, this thing that I do occasionally every Sunday. And I was struck by that on Tuesday. And I'm struck by that every time that you all, you know, engage, you know, with this, you know, thing. The way that you do, the way you give of yourselves for the sake of your time, for the sake of your daughters, you know, in the causes that we're passionate about. So thank you so much for continuing to be part of that alone together. Salud. Cheers. I talked a lot about like the slope of the hill for the sake of these wines.

And, you know, I kind of want to bring up this like this. This is just like a really generic diagram. But, you know, the idea being that you have this is kind of just an insert village here, but you have this hard limestone cap. And, you know, it's variously defined by different kinds of limestone under, you know, different names. But then, you know, you get into this more impure limestone. Marl is a mudstone that has, you know, some calcium in it, but not enough to be considered limestone. And you have these various layers, you know, deposited, you know, over tens of millions of years. And, you know, they inform ultimately the character of the wine. But the ideal position, you know, it actually typically is a little lower down than it is here.

But this point where, you know, you have, you know, sufficiently deep soils to give, you know, richness to the wine, but sufficient drainage, you know, give structure and acid. And, you know, this, you know, they say pied du mont, foot of the hill. But this, and typically like, they're making this look way more steep than it actually is in practice. Like Montrachet has an average elevation gain of like three percent in some parts. But like, you know, this is the gold, you know, you know, that that middle of the slope. Ultimately, where you, you know. Have the buildup of colluvium, the buildup of, you know, the stuff that is, you know, shed itself from the top of the slope and is beginning to be, you know, deposited deeply.

But hasn't gotten to the point where, you know, the wines are so rotund that they're out of whack and not ageable. And that's what, you know, the Burgundians kind of, you know, really pride themselves on just being idea. And then equally, I love this image of the Côte d'Or. So this is. This is from south to the left, north to the right. Santenot de Marcenet. And you can see... So this is a little weird. This is in French, but Nantoux is those. Those are the Oelites. You know, those are like the little guys I spoke to earlier, which, you know, crown Corton, which is this hill here. But, you know, that other rock that a Comblanchian being the gold that, you know, kind of disappeared. Here's something that is subsumed under Corton and then reemerges.

And so you can see that reemergence in that triangle, you know, tracing its way from the beginnings in Merceau. And then, you know, it's kind of widest point at the boundary between Pouligny and Chasson, which accounts for Le Montrachet, which was sadly out of our budget. Montrachet is the most expensive white Burgundy. Of them all, it costs about twice as much as Pouligny. And I wanted to max out at $60 for the sake of the flight. We can do, you know, four ounce pour for $60 at a later date. But, yeah, and, you know, there's just like there's so many variables when it comes to, you know, this millions of years worth of history written wine. But I love that, you know, over 12,000 named vineyards.

Burgundians have, you know, for generation upon generation, sought to try to unravel it, sought to try to understand it. You know, they didn't even have a language for it scientifically, and they were trying to unravel it and understand it. And, you know, we pick up the thread of that experiment, you know, to this very day. And, you know, a wonderfully profound, like poetic kind of way. What else do you have to say? Questions? Can you talk a little bit about the freeze in Burgundy earlier this month? And how does it affect vines, and potentially how it would affect this vintage year? Yeah, it's kind of a funny thing. So, you know, we spoke of 2012 as the shit year. It sounds better in French. Yeah, on du maire. On du maire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like you have to make that face when you say like maire, maire. Your face has to look like maire. But Chardonnay is a famously early budding grape. And, you know, that period between a vine budding and then flowering is particularly vulnerable. But, you know, after buds, the grapes are very vulnerable to late season frosts. And, you know, we think of global warming relatively close to the poles here. But the world is warming even faster, closer to the North and South Poles. You know, ask your Alaskan friends. And because of that, you have these, like, you have these, like, there are caps of cold air that, like, are getting strangely displaced. And, you know, so, like, the polar vortex and all that, like, we experienced here years ago kind of happened a week or so ago in Europe.

But it's been a historically mild winter across many parts of the continent. So, you know, and grapes, you know, they like to have grape vines. They like to have, like, real seasons and having a real season, having a real winter, having, like, a harder frost. It's important in a lot of these classic regions because it kills off a lot of potential, you know, predators and potential pests, you know, kind of pests for the sake of, you know, the vineyard in, like, insect life. You know, but with, you know, weather events just being more extreme and more variable, you have this, like, really late season frost after this, you know, relatively mild winter. And Chardonnay is particularly vulnerable to that. So, you know, what happens is, you know, you'll get a portion of vines affected.

You know, maybe they'll bud again. Maybe, you know, only a portion of a vineyard is affected, but yields are much lower. And, you know, that can be good or bad. You know, hail has this way of, like, thinning a crop in a way that, if it's not hugely devastating, can produce, like, really interesting wines because yields are so low that the, like, crop is, like, really concentrated. You know, late frost events can do the same thing, but it can also more universally affect a crop where, you know, you have a reemergence of buds and the fruit ultimately begins its ripening cycle too late to ever catch up. So, you know, there's a lot of unknown, ultimately, about what the wines will be, but it's not going to be probably a great vintage for white Burgundy.

Fortunately, Pinot buds on flowers much later, so the red birds probably won't be affected. But there are these great images of all these fire pots, so classically in Chablis, especially. And they have all these fire pots, so it looks like this, like, really, like, creepy cult intervention thing with, like, fires lit between the vine rows just to warm the vineyard. And honestly, like, an even better way to do it is a helicopter. So, a helicopter, you know, kind of like—like, fucks with the inversion layer of cold and, like, keeps air circulating in the vineyard. And honestly, like, the—typically, you know, we think of cold in this weird way. You would think that, like, the exposed hillsides are most, you know, at danger, but they're not.

Cold air settles, so very often the valley like that, like, valley floor is much more vulnerable for these frost events than the mid-slope is. And circulation of air is really important. And I've heard as much from a lot of friends in the Finger Lakes that, you know, they experience, you know, the worst, you know, vine loss in sites where air is not circulating. So it's like, a little less about you know grape varietal than is about like specificity on a vineyard level for the sake of that circulating air. Absolutely, it's fascinating about the helicopters. Oh, you know – Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you have the money, you know get after it. But also, like, you can install fans in the vineyard to do the same thing. Yeah.

Could you talk to us about options for white Burgundy that don't come at the price tag of white Burgundy, both internationally and then domestically? Yes. Fall in love with the Macon. The Macon is your friend. They're so good. Any time so. M. A with a little Chapeau, C-O-N. And that's the southerly most region of Burgundy. It is composed of a bunch of different villages and a lot of the villages have a right to append their name to the sub-region. So you see, it's a huge corner of Burgundy and it actually turns out, more wine in volume than the couture as a whole. I mean, that's what it's called, right? And the bulk of it is Chardonnay, and I think, you know, they're great, they're great wines, but, you know, they don't get the love they deserve.

Pouilly-Foussay is the most famous, but there are, you know, a whole mess of them. Dominique Laffont, who's based further north in the Cote d'Or, makes quite a bit of wine there, and it's all stunning. I don't, I mean, I'm going to be real with you, like, this is not my favorite of Olivier Merlin's wines, but I think he's backed off of his, like, oak fetish in subsequent vintages, and they really shine for me, so, yeah, the Macollan is the place to go. They make good Whiteburg and the Cochalonet from Chardonnay. It's a little nerdy, like, it's, like, lower alcohol, but, like, they tend to throw some oak at it, so, like, sometimes it feels disjointed and annoyed at this point; Pouilly-Foussay does, but Macollan is, like, yeah, it's the truth.

They make great, great, great, great wine that doesn't get the love it deserves, and honestly, like, I love Pinot, but, you know, I find myself just not wanting to play, you know, Burgundian red Russian roulette for the sake of whether it's worth, you know, 30 to 50 dollars. I'm going to pay, you know, for a bottle that's worthwhile, and I'd probably rather buy, I also like cool climate Pinot. I like it when it goes to this, like, you know, Italian Amaro-y kind of place, and so I find myself drinking, you know, the Burgundies that I drink, they just tend to be from the Macollan, and they tend to be white, and, and I am really happy with that, you know, relationship with that place, because they're, you know, amazing wines, but, yeah, again, you can't, you know, it's not like a, you know, walk down to the corner liquor store and buy, you know, kind of thing.

You actually go to a place that, you know, cares about such things, and, you know, have buyers that do, or just go online, you know, fucking just buy everything online. Yeah, absolutely. That comes to a really good question of, like, are there, is there space for young winemakers? Is there anyone doing anything experimentally, where it's, like, it's not just our classic oak? Is anyone using, like, Covevery or anything like that? So Burgundy is, like, very much not hip when it comes to, like, you know, the culture of, like, the French natural wine scene. The hip regions are the ones where young winemakers can afford land, and that is not Burgundy. There are a few more natural leaning producers emerging there, and it should be said that, like, equally, you know, it depends on whether you're using natural as a marketing gimmick, or whether you're actually considering the relative merits of the vineyard practices, because Albert de Belaine, you know, he wasn't, like, necessarily, you know, like, the Madame Bizet was, was, head of him in adopting biodynamic practices, but, you know, Albert, you know, was an early believer, early-ish believer in biodynamics, and so, and, you know, certainly, he's also a famous proponent of, like, whole cluster, not, not, like, carbonic, but, like, throwing the stems in the mix, so he does a lot of things that are fashionable, you know, but he makes wine out of, like, mere mortals, you know, reach, for the sake of price points, you know, so I don't want to say that there's, like, a lack of innovation in Burgundy, but there's just, like, a lack of, you know, kind of hip, you know, young winemakers, like, you go to Beaujolais for that, You don't go to Burgundy for that, and, and there are a lot of, you know, children from winemaking families in Burgundy that look to the Loire if they want to own land.

If you want to make wine in Burgundy, you have to kind of be a wunderkind, like, you know, Benjamin Laurent, and, and, you know, work your way up through someone else's estate and make wine that way, because, you know, land is just too expensive. Historically, that's been the model, though, you know, you know, a lot of people have worked with other people's fruit, but it is desperately hard to create your own domain if you don't have, like, stupid hedge fund money, and then, you know, why are you making wine anyway? You're just, like, I don't know. I assume the worst of those people, even though it's not always fair to assume the worst of them, because, you know, a lot of them, you know, are motivated by, you know, not contributing to human misery, or at the very least, like, using, you know, the arbitrary wealth they've accumulated to benefit the sense, so, but, yeah, it's not, it's not that region.

If you're looking for, you know, who's pushing the envelope for the sake of what wine can be in France, it's not Burgundy. Burgundy is, you know, attached to this, you know, centuries-old product of, like, or practice, and, And, and kind of project of defining place um, but the cool thing is there's value to be had even the couture like oxy duress under like San Roman; there are these like off the beaten path corners of the um you know uh world that you know make wine that's affordable; it's just you have to be creative, you have to read um uh, but yeah; it's not good burgundy's not good; it's timeless, yeah; it's like the uh

it's like yeah it's it's like a it's the cultured aristocrat um at this point of the wine world which is weird because historically it was more of a farmer um, but within the last you know decade in particular it's it's become as much commodity as it is wine which is never a place that you want to live as a wine well; one could say that because of the yield and yeah totally the allocation of it it's just very classic supply yeah; there's only yeah there's only so much like yeah there's only so much montrachet to go around, there's I mean montrachet is a relatively big big vineyard like romany conti is comparatively small, there's only so much like latache romany conti richebourg to go around and you know yeah it's not wine anymore you know um in a sad in a way that like saddens me um and like I kind of I get pissed off about that So, like, uh, like I listen to I do a lot of research for the sake of these episodes and as much as it's valuable for or not valuable like to the extent that it informs anyone's life, you know, it's useful for me as continuing education and um, you know, I a lot of times go back to the well for the sake of uh, um. This New York Song letty Dalton has a podcast and he interviewed Albert de Belaine, and I listened to that episode and like the questions I want him to ask are like, you know, Albert does it matter that you know your wine is only available to the richest few?

Like, does that bother you, and I think that's a really good question. I think that's A really good, um, uh, you know, and I think that's a really interesting question to ask, but Levy never asked that question, um, Levy's more concerned with like kind of fluffing Albert, um, but you know that's more his project and Albert's awesome, like Albert's a cool dude, he likes spent the first part of his career stateside, um, he's like really experimental, um, he's taking chances, but you know he was born on third base, um, you know, I think he's one of those people that like knows that he was born on third base and doesn't pretend to, he likes, he hit a triple, you know, like the don't trumps of the world were born born on third base and you know.

don't know like they they tell the world that they hit a triple um but uh you know the wines were unaffordable you know in the 1790s you know when the owner lost his head you know so it seems kind of fitting that they're still unaffordable today um it's just it's just sad like you know does you know it gives us a great existential question like does romney content matter if no one drinks it does it matter if it's liquid currency instead of a wine you know um does it add value you know for for wine drinkers and you know those are questions i can't answer um those are those are like larger philosophical questions um uh you know the thing about the cool thing for me about white burgundy is like people don't fetishize white wine the same way white wine is more expensive than it should be but like is that five five hundred dollars instead of five thousand totally reasonable i don't yeah i mean i don't know if i answered the question at all there but i answered i answered my question i guess would be no it's vp i think this is the political answer you often say you uh you answered the question that you wanted to yeah i know i know what was the what was the original question anyways talking oh what was it oh perhaps about um burgundy substitutes in internationally Or domestic, yeah, that's great, yeah. Like Chardonnay, Chardonnay is, you can make Chardonnay anywhere, I mean like there are there are a lot of people, yeah, like um scratching, scratching that scratching that itch and doing it well um well what is I'll throw that back back to you is it like uh greatest Chardonnay outside of Burgundy that you've ever had, you know. I would say that like some Washington state wines have like really impressed me, I have to say that like I think that I've just like tasted too much um Finger Lakes Shard to like I've like loved some Red Tail Bridge Shards that have been put out and I really enjoy you know. I'm gonna say Chateau Montelena, I'm still gonna, I'm still gonna like wrap that old school like, but I know they have way too much money and like I don't need to support them still so good no, Montelena is one of those great signposts um, and they're high, they're like north, they're far north enough in the valley but the wines aren't you know monolithically flatty um for me honestly it's a lot of the a lot of the Sonoma Coast stuff I find just really stunning uh smoke sea smoke yeah yeah, Sea Smoke is domestic like and for me it it marries you know some of that like new world full fruitiness with this like maritime you know and and it's all about continuity  it's like i think you know some wines they have that full fruit um you know and acid and you know can feel like a plateau where you strap that like drop down and it feels jarring but you know i think the good wines what they accomplish is you know they you know they they hold your hand through that journey um and you know the the yeah those those are some of the honestly we'll stop this i'm the greatest greatest runners i've had um i'm trying to think of other like more you know or some group shit um you know but i can't like i feel Like Chardonnay doesn't do that as well, Chardonnay just wants to be kind of like timeless and and elegant even when it's opulent. I will say, within Burgundy, I love beer class a, so I've had beer class A is this uh uh appellation I tried to bring in for the sake of this class less famous than puny much shade but another one of those like two villages coming together things and it's famously overripe um and it goes to this like really weird like stuff fermentation like almost betritized place um that's just hedonistic but without oak um just fucking awesome um those wines are great um I yeah I I I love that style, you.

know for me i find often wine that like i don't want you to if you're gonna if you're gonna embrace you know um you know opulence i just want you to go all in you know i want i want like the most crazy like ridiculous you know like madness um like like yeah i i just i just want it to be like pulo or coco i want like a missy elliott video you know i i want that you know i i don't want you to you know pretend in elegance you know while you know you know being like buster rimes i just want you to be like if you're gonna be missy just like own it girl you know yeah like slow songs are for skinny girls i love it um absolutely i think um it was jances robinson Who said that Chardonnay is just like a mirror to the Earth and so like whatever the soil is like, it's going to be so incredibly transparent of a time and a place because Chardonnay is so neutral. I always think about that when we're like going through these different places in Burgundy, because there really are stylistic choices that are geographical but also with people involved. So like if you're going to spend so much money on wine, like do your research and know what you like, and then see what you like. But you know that takes money, yeah I mean it's ripe; it's ripe for abuse too.

So I love, uh like Oz Clark; um is this like british dawn but uh um how many do we have any more questions oh can we have a croatia class i know i we need i just i want to go to croatia i don't have a croatia class but croatia actually makes some really lovely on oak chardonnay um it should be said they work with they work with sharp but yes we'll we'll go we'll we have a like i haven't really nerded out in eastern europe yet and we need we need to go there i promise we'll go there uh but uh i'm noticing that this is this is a a bit of uh prose from oz clark um and and i love the way he writes about wine um and i'm at some fun resources for you all tomorrow for the sake of um all the quotes I dropped in today, but he said, 'You can have too much of a good thing.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You can be the most adored and fond upon the most popular, the most respected and created for. You can be the hairy prince, the golden queen, the Venetian almighty, and it can go all terribly wrong. How quickly can such respect and reverence turn to sneering and abuse? How casually can a great reputation be mangled and past glories trampled underfoot? And the rest will find something new to gawk at and proclaim. Just ask a Chardonnay producer; um, so you know. I love this idea of circling back for the sake of wines. I find that like um you know in life as in wine drinking my some of my favorite things are things that have like you know lived a million lives been through you know this like you know layers you know moments of adulation and moments of you know scorn um and reaction um and just come back again and and and you know emerge through it all as you know timeless and um you know eternal and and i think you know uh chardonnay um you know has that and you know that's certainly worth touching too so uh cheers to you all thank you for joining us today.