Autumn Is Amber: Georgia Revisited with Gvantsa Abuladze & Noel Brockett

Class transcript:

Recording here, oh my all live for posterity's sake, uh hopefully we'll get tomorrow back in the mix, I should have, I should have known with tomorrow's name, I'm going to release the hounds here and we'll kick this off, and I'm sure I'll find her, uh yeah she said she thought that yes it might be tomorrow, ah great welcome, uh one and all happy Sunday it is a pleasure as always to have you with us, uh I'm trying here to uh disable uh the waiting room and that doesn't seem to be an option which is here we go and uh we have our special guest hopefully uh live from eight time zones away joining us as well um Zoe if I forget will you uh remind me to Continually admit, uh, our participants because, uh, the waiting room uh will not die, uh, for whatever reason, um.

Welcome one and all; it's a pleasure to have you all with us, um. It is a pleasure, uh, especially, uh, to have, uh, many of you joining us from more time zones away than, uh, we have ever, uh, entertained, uh, before. Uh, Gavansa, Avaladzi; um and, uh, Gavansa. I apologize if I'm, uh, butchering your beautiful surname there, um. And we have many other, um, fabulous Georgian surnames, uh, in the mix today, uh, as well, which is just incredibly exciting, um. We have kind of obliquely touched on, uh, Georgia as a, uh, topic before, but, uh georgia as a uh topic before but uh Never, uh, directly, uh, for the sake of an individual lesson which is um, you know, hugely important to me because it is, it is, one of my favorite, uh, wine regions in the world, um, I myself took a very memorable trip there and I had the fortune of traveling a bit, um, with, uh, Noel, Mr 

Noel Brockett, um, who is our first, uh, repeat guest on, uh, Taylor Goat Wine School, uh, Noel, I hope you are honored, uh, by that, uh, distinction, uh, as you, as you should be, um, we will continue, uh, to admit, you all, i want to thank everyone who was able to join us, uh, midweek for, for our first live and in-person wine school event. It was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope all of you who were able to attend did as well. I am really stoked though for this particular lesson. We have 8,000 years worth of winemaking history to go over here for the sake of Georgian wines and an esteemed guest from one of my favorite corners of the country, which is very unique, I think, to the extent that Americans know of Georgian wine.

Most of the wines that make it stateside are wines from Keketi, the easternmost region of Georgia, which is hot and dry. And the wines there, you know, they tend to be on the kind of fuller-bodied, more densely tannic, powerful side of the ledger. But in as much as Georgia is an ancient winemaking culture, it is an incredibly diverse winemaking culture as well. And certainly that is something that we want to celebrate for the sake of this lesson. We're going to be bouncing back and forth between different wines for all of you who have provisioned through our store. We had all sorts of individual offerings available, no fewer than four of which are from our guests today, Kavonsa Abouladze and her sister, Baya. This is very much a family affair.

Kavonsa, are you with us? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Sorry. My skills with the Zoom are not really good, but somehow I managed that I am now on. You did very well, Kavonsa. You are more on time than Noel was the first time he joined us. So, you're aacing it for now. Of course, Noel is an honorary Georgian, so he doesn't show up anywhere on time. But you are, you're doing very well. We are so honored. So honored that you were able to join us. Thank you so much. With big, big, big pleasure. . Yes. I'm amazed that you haven't, so you have yet to start harvest, where are you- No, not yet, yeah. Which is pretty, which is pretty remarkable because you know, all of the other major regions I can think of around the world are well into harvests or almost done with harvest at this point and you haven't even started.

which speaks to kind of, you know, the unique situation, especially in Emirati. Yeah, well, so in our case, the point is that, first of all, harvest is the, like, most important time in our year, because that's still, like, time when you make, like, general decisions and general steps and things, so, like, full year, you are working in a vineyard and you spend, like, all your energy and everything there, and then the result has to be during the harvest, and so you need to be, like, really on the time, so you don't have to be, like, very early or, like, you can't really be, like, super late, so you need to just, like, choose the right time for harvest. So in our case, we, so we always do like this.

We sit before, like, September and we see our vineyards and we taste our grapes and then, like, we are discussing. Like, when I say we, it means, like, Paya, Giorgi, and me. And then, so we always make a plan. So what we want to do, like, for example, this year, we are from the Tzolikauri grapes or from the Krahuna grapes or from Aldastuli or wherever we have, and so this year we decide to, like, be patient, not really be Emirati people, but also, like, really traditionally in Emirati is usually we start harvest in October. Like, um, Uh, because of global warming, those days are coming, like, a bit earlier, uh, the last five years. Uh, but as usually it was, like, after 15 October.

So what we want now is we are looking for, like, a certain point of sugar levels, but also, like, we are looking for some pH and acidity. And once these three, uh, major component we will have together and also once we will eat our berries and we will say that, okay, now it's yummy and it's the right time to harvest, uh, we will start. And, you know, like, what it looks like, it looks like when, like, it feels like when you are a horse and there is some, like, riding and then, like, you are just waiting to open the gate and you want to run after it. Yes, exactly. It's like the running of the bulls. So every day we are, like, going and checking the sugars and, like, every day we are discussing whether it's time or not.

Uh, but we want to push it back a bit because we want to get, like, really nice ripeness, um, and then once it will be time, then we will come and harvest. That's amazing. And we are very grateful that you haven't opened the gates yet. Yeah. You can join us. And so, um, uh, Noel and Gavanta, I kind of wanted to structure this kind of like a bit of a virtual suprA. So, um, I'm going to, I'm going to play a role of Tamada, but, you know, offer a few toasts to you and to Noel. And, uh, for those of you who are, who are not familiar, who are just joining us, thank you again, uh, for being a part of this.

For this virtual lesson, we have, uh, Gavanta Abuladze, uh, joining us from Imereti, and Noel Brockett joining us from Washington, D.C., um, who imports, uh, these wines. And, uh, Zoe Nystrom, as always, from, uh, dozens of feet away from me. And Gavanta Ali, uh, sends her love from our, our other restaurant. She is, uh, said she couldn't be, uh, here today, but so excited that you were able to join us. Um, but, uh, the first toast, so I'm offering a series of toasts, and this is very traditional in the context of the Georgian ritual feast, which is called the supra, which comes from a Persian word for tablecloth, because when you sit down to a Georgian meal, everything is laid out on, already for you.

And the meal is a, a war of attrition until, you know, someone waves a white flag and you can't eat anymore. Um, you know, that is, you know, the, the way that they eat everything to excess, and you're always drinking wine. Um, and, uh, it's a very special way of dining, but it is, um, kind of structured around a series of ritual toasts. And the toast master is a very important ceremony. It's a very important ceremonial function in Georgia. And that person is, is a tamada. Um, and traditionally, you always open with a, uh, a toast to, uh, Mother Georgia. And, uh, they say sacartelo, um, uh, because, you know, Georgia is, is land of the, um, uh, you say, what do you say, the, the, uh, sacart people, or, uh?

Cartrellians, cartrellians. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and so, uh, I wanted, uh, to host, uh, to toast, rather, the, the two of you, but also to toast, uh, Georgia, which, uh, we are, are celebrating, uh, today. So, um, uh, this is, uh, and, and you'll have to bear with me, Gavance, I promise that we'll come back to you shortly, but, uh, toast to Georgia, and then we open up with a poem, but I do have a Georgian poem, and then, uh, you'll have to indulge me for one more toast, and then, uh, you can, you know, keep on talking, um, because you are, you are joining us. It's, it's past midnight in Imereti, isn't it? Yeah, but it's, like, we are really used to, uh, like, go to sleep after, like, midnight or something, so it's, it's normal, and it's, it's absolutely beautiful for us.

So. So this is, uh, a toast to Socrates Velo. Um, so in the words of John Steinbeck, one of our greatest writers, um, uh, Georgia is a cradle of wine. It's a land of supermen and superwomen, great drinkers, great dancers, great musicians, great workers, and great lovers. Uh, it is a, uh, a place, a part, um, a, a heaven on earth, uh, but it also an idea, an ideal that embodies a thirst for life, um, and a camaraderie that comes with it. It couldn't be more essential now, uh, than ever. Uh, so cheers to Georgia. Cheers to Noel and Cavazza. Thank you so much for joining us. Kaumarjos. Kaumarjos. Kaumarjos is to victory. And then we have, uh, a bit of, uh, a verse here.

Uh, this is from one of the most famous contemporary, uh, Georgian, uh, female poets, uh, Anna Kalandadze. Um, this is a poem called, uh, January Flowers at Ublitschike, and I apologize for my, uh, Georgian pronunciation, but, uh, beautiful poem translated into English from the original Georgian. Dried stems of alien flowers Left alone in a rocky gorge Such sad drooping heads, how so? Still faded beauty suits them Why weep for stolen crowns? Precious stones, plundered, lost Nothing worldly stirs desire. In heaven, grief of soul, they slumber. Stone heart clips, malignant winds. So they seem to us, stand guard. Without crowns, possessed by the wind, Possessions none, they are sheltered in their womb. Winds war and blowing clouds. This is what their souls reflect. They will yet take up new leaves.

And their crowns return once more. Um, a beautiful poem, and, you know, I like the spirit of resilience. You know, that particular poem, um, encapsulates, which feels distinctly Georgian. The Georgians, over the centuries, have faced the Mongol hordes, the Persian hordes, the Russian hordes, um, you know, the Ottoman hordes, um, who have burned down their houses, burned down their vineyards from one year to another, and yet they persist, yet they endure, yet they protect and jealously guard their culture, um, and, you know, um, a big part of that culture is, is wine. Um, and, uh, my last toast before I start asking you questions, uh, Gavanca, is to, um, you know, the women in my own life, um, uh, I just read that, um, uh, this is, uh, a, a political rant, so those of you playing bingo at home, you can, you know, check that off your boards, uh, right now, but, uh, I just read that, um, men still favor Donald Trump overwhelmingly, like 55 to 40, 45% in the United States.

Uh, women, um, uh, will save us all because they are, uh, preferring, uh, Biden, you know, like, you know, 60, 70%, uh, to, so thank God for women, and, uh, particularly, thank God for female winemakers. Um, uh, you know, Gavancha and her sister Vaya, uh, first and foremost among them. Uh, Georgia's amazing, uh, Georgia's greatest king was a queen. Um, super cool. Um, Georgian women are the keepers of Georgian culture. Uh, they create and sustain the Supra, and, uh, they are some of the country's greatest ambassadors now. So, uh, cheers to Georgian women. Whoa. Thank you very much. Um, so, uh, Gavancha, um, how did you get into winemaking? Ooh, that's, like, a, a really good question. Well, so we are three. We are three siblings. Uh, so Vaya is the, uh, the biggest one.

I'm, uh, like, uh, the middle one. And we also have a brother, Georgi. And between three of us, like, uh, the Vaya and Georgi, they are, like, super hard worker people, and I am the spoiledest child in the family. So in my case, I- Well, thank you. Thank you for the spoiled child, Gavanca. Yeah. So I was, like, very interested to work with, uh, kids. Um, uh, and so I lived, uh, for a while in Sweden. And then, um, so, like, one summer, I came back to home. And then, so I find out that Vaya was really, really into the winemaking. But since our childhood, because we born in, uh, in Okja, like, where we have a winery now, and we, uh, finished school here, and, uh, for our, like, daily lifestyle, the, uh, it was always that, like, school time.

And then after school time, we had time to, um, like, study. And then it was always time for our vineyard. And also, like, we had the other stuff to help out our parents and grandparents. And my grandparents, like, our grandparents, um, they were doing wines, like, since I don't know when. So we are, like, first generation already who lives in this house. So we always had a, like, small amount of vineyard. And also we had an outside wine cellar. And, uh, the, um, after, like, uh, the, my grandparents, um, like, finished, uh, their job, uh, they, like, all the time, uh, the vineyard work and the wine cellar work. And Vaya was always with them. So she was, like, super spoiled. I recognize that your grandfather was actually a vineyard manager.

Yes. So my grandfather was the boss in the vineyard's case. And, and he is the one who is, like, the boss. And he is, like, uh, who is most fashionable person who I never met. Like, uh, once he starts talking about wine, and once he starts talking about his vision with wine, then it's, like, you, you need to, like, if you say something, then it's, like, oh, my God. Um, and then, uh. Is that, like, you're stuck with him for an hour and he keeps talking or? Yeah. Yeah, he, he, well, and also he always has some candies to give to us. So that was, like, uh, for, for my case, that was the, uh, the point why I was listening on the beginning.

And now it's, like, paying at this moment with the candies to him to talk. So, um, so, but, um, and then, so once I came back, I just really realized that for Vaya, the wine became really different stuff. So it was, like, uh, because in that time she was, uh, at university in Tbilisi. Uh, but the wine was something, like, connection for her between, like, big city and our previous life. And then, uh, we find out that, like, in the three of us case, so that was something what we really miss in our life. And then she did an amazing job to show up, uh, show, uh, to us, like, why it was important and why it was, like, beautiful to, uh, work with the grapes and work with the wine.

And then we just, like, really, to be honest, suddenly find out that, uh, like, it's really big piece and very big freedom. If you're doing the wines. Uh, but at the same time, it's, like, a lot of work, of course. Like, it's an amazing feeling once you see, uh, and once you feel, uh, that process. And also, like, we are together, like, as a family. Uh, which makes us, like, super happy. But sometimes it's hard as well. I, I mean, mostly once it's a before harvest time. Because the point is, that at this time, absolutely different ideas what to do. And we have, like, uh, just, uh, limited amount of grapes. So, we need to, uh, fight all the time to figure it out, like, which way do we want to take.

So, um, but, yeah. At the end of the day, the idea is that we need to figure it out, like, one way to work. Like, one, uh, uh, shared way. So, that's the, that's the beauty of this work. That's amazing. Um. Zoe was very curious what it was like to work with, um, your sister. Because Zoe has a sister and she can't imagine making wine with her sister. But, uh, it sounds like you two manage it very well. Now, um, will you situate your region within Georgia? I'm going to show everyone a map. And, and will you talk about, um, Imereti and how it's, you know, maybe a little different from other parts of Georgia in terms of the style of wines that, uh, are created there? Uh, well, in Imereti's case, so, um, yeah. You go. Sorry.

. Ah, okay. So, we, we are, uh, in the western part of Georgia, as you mentioned. So, in, uh, in once you see the map of Georgia, uh, like, uh, there is a beautiful, uh, the mountain system between western and eastern part of Georgia. Uh, and we call it, like, Leaky Mountain. Uh, or, like, Leaky Mountain. Uh, and, um, so, um, and, uh, so, we are in the western part of, uh, Leaky. Uh, once you pass the, uh, this tunnel, you, uh, you just end up, uh, in, uh, Imereti region. Uh, and, uh, we have, like, three parts of Imereti. Uh, the, it's, like, uh, the middle part and, uh, like, the Cuemo Imereti, which is, like, down part, middle part, and upper part of Imereti. And it's a very hill region.

So, we have, like, small mountains. Um, and the small hills. So, you can't really see, like, big valleys, uh, together as usually. And, uh, it's very, um, like, pretty humid here. Uh, which is very important once you have a vineyard. And if you want to make wine here, you really need to figure it out, uh, at this point. Uh, and, uh, but also, like, climate is very interesting because we have this fall season. And if it's a winter, it's really winter. So, it's very cold. And, uh, like, as usual, we get snow. But as I mentioned, like, because of global warming, sometimes, like, some stuff is, uh, changed. Uh, I think we also need to accept that we will get, like, less and less snow. At least, like, last, let's say, last five years.

We, uh, have not had, like, huge amount of snow. But I remember, like, sometimes we had, like, more than half meter of snow here. Which was very important for our soil. And the soil is a pretty clay. But there are, like, the places. Just like, uh, if you have a vineyard, uh, the next to the river. So, you have also those, like, uh, beautiful stones and scents as well. Um, and, uh, once it's, uh, like, summertime, then you have a very dry, like, very hot days. But, um, at the same time, sometimes we have, like, a raining season in, uh, summertime. Which starts, uh, um, uh, end of July, like, beginning of August. Which is not super fantastic if we have. But, uh, like, for example.

This year, we did not have that much rain in this time. We just had, like, beautiful rains during the vegetation process. And hope we will not have rain before harvest now. My fingers crossed. Even my foot's fingers are crossed, so we'll see. Yeah. So, um, the way that you know, your relationship with Baia has evolved. Um, she is making the wine from white grapes. And, uh, you're working with the red grapes. How did that come about? Yeah. Well, that's, that's actually was Baia's idea. So, between the three of us, she's the, like, she's the big mom. So, she was, like, since her childhood, the person who is always, like, worried and take care about the others. Uh, and, uh, like, if you see our relationships. For example, if we have ice cream.

Like, if three of us, we have ice creams. And we love to eat ice creams. She will share us to her ice creams. Even though if we have. So, um, when I came back, uh, from Sweden. That was her idea. To create, like, the red line with my name. But, um, you know, once you start winemaking. Uh, and once, like, now we feel that, uh, during the making process. Like, during the working process. Like, three of us, we are, like, one person. And, um, like, for us, um, it does not really make sense. If it's a white wine or red wine. Or if it's, like, white grapes or red grapes. We just put, like, all our energy there. So, if she steps close to, like, the allotted fury tank.

You don't, like, elbow her out or anything. No, no, of course, of course. But, um, but, um, uh, like, at the same time. She is the really, let's say, like, the final word. It's up to her with a white wine's case. And with a red wine's case. Because she is, like, very, um. So, once you take a decision. She's thinking, like, alone. Like, a really long time. And then after, like, after this long thinking. And, like, um, discussing with us. She will say, like, let's go with this way or let's go with that way. But in red wine's case, um, because of its, like, under my name. I have a possibility to, like, let's say get 500 liters of grape juice and make some experiment and end up with a vinegar.

And but, um. But in her case, she is more careful with such a kind of stuff. But because of it's, like, under my name. I have, like, a little bit more powerful word. In that case. That, like, okay, let's try this. She's, like, you need to be, like, more careful. You need to think more long-term if you want to make this decision. But, yeah. That's, like, it's a, it's a, it's a. Under my name. So, I can we can do this. Like, we can take that risk. But she's like more. Maybe we'll think more about it. So, well yeah. So, let's talk about her wine first. And I should say that one of my favorite things about Georgian wine that I think sometimes people miss is just the sheer diversity of it.

You know there's so many different styles. And grapes you know over depending on who you talk to over 400 over 500. And Imereti in particular has this amazing diversity of styles. I'm going to sometimes the words can be. I was hoping that you could help me with pronunciation. What is what is what is the first. So, your sister's first wine. How do you. How do you say this particular grape? So. We say. Um, we'll wait that's pretty high for your region, no yeah well yeah, but so in our case, um, so that's the like way what we really like in Tolic ours case, so that's why we want to like wait. But sometimes it can work sometimes it can't because of weather because we have these raining seasons in like middle of October uh, but if we are like enough lucky, we will catch that, so we will see, but that's a bit risk. And then like from Tolic Auri uh, you uh, like um, the the graves itself, like the wine tree is very um easy to work to compare let's say to tzitzka or another um like uh the white variety Grahuna um, so vegetation process is like pretty nice and very gentle, and it's a first the first plants between uh tzitzka and Grahuna who will start vegetation process and the first grapes also which we will harvest.

And then like during the making process what we are looking for is we want to have like a nice acidity but we also uh want to have like a little bit tannins inside to fill the body of the wine um, and then with the nose it's um so what we want to get but also the the question is what we want it will be we want to uh fill the like more ripe fruit And, more full-bodied, like more serious wine, what we are looking for to get from Solicaiuri, uh, yeah, but as I said also it's like it depends on how we work in the vineyard and like what will be the year. And like thanks God our soil is pretty nice with such kind of grapes because we have this uh like a lot of clay inside this um soil which is like very helpful for us, we think.

Because our roots are uh going down, and if it's like a dry year and if we don't have any irrigation system at all here, and we also don't really want to get um, we're trying to stress our uh grape trees a little bit to push roots go down to catch like minerals and water. and and then we always manage amount of buds what we have um on the branches because we don't want to get like a huge amount of grapes and per hectare is usually uh what like if it's normal year we have like five six tone is a really maximum uh from our vineyards so of total code now so um you know some of you are familiar with the the vessel on uh the label here but um is this a wine that you're making of every case what is it and how how do you make wine in it okay so query is a very very important uh the point for once we are talking about the the wine making in georgia but also like for us as a the people who try to make wine on the during the making process it's a very comfortable uh jar to work because it is always like it is first of all it is made with a clay uh and it is always inside the soil the on the pitcher uh so she's my lazy sister baya and you see like this beautiful colored berry but as usually those curves are always inside the ground and the size can be like uh the different it can be like 16 liter big or it can be like three or four four tone big  and but uh also there is a difference between western and eastern part of georgia for example if you are in cacette you can see like a huge queries um let's say this is three or four tone but in a once you are in a Western part we have, like, more small amounts, like, more uh smaller Kvevris and um, sometimes we call them um, you say you say you say Churi. What's the it's a different word yeah well we say Churi as usual like when in people are talking between each other's we say Churi we don't say Kvevri but now because of Kvevri became like more international name to describe Churi we say Kvevri as well, yeah why why is it that the you know uh the Churi are smaller in Emirati versus yeah so uh there are like a different uh the the ideas and uh the there are like the the people who are talking about different ideas but uh the idea what I really like.

And I think it's like, really um, that in the Western part we have a small amount of vineyards. And at the same time, for example, if you are in Emirati region, you don't have like, it's very hard to see let's say two hectare vineyards together. It's usually you have like 20 square meters here and like 15 square meters here and after like four kilometers, 10 square meters there. And at the end of the day, let's say per family maybe we have like, the average families have one hectare vineyard or half a hectare. And then amount of uh, kvevri or churis are the small because uh, uh, because of the amount of grapes. So maybe that's the that's the Reason, yeah, I think also it's funny, um, you know, having traveled to Georgia, uh, Kegeti is a very, it's a very grand region, it's a, you know, big landscape, massive mountains, these huge valleys. Emirati feels like, you know, home here; it's, you know, a lot of farmers and, you know, there's a spirit of hospitality that I think, you know, feels like home. You know the one thing that I think is really important is that the urban culture and the urban culture in the area is a lot more vibrant, much more intimate, um, and you know, um, there's just a very, there's a real warmth to you know American culture that um, I really adore and I, unfortunately didn't Get a chance to visit you, but I did, I visited Archul Kunyava and Ramaz Nikoladzi, and, um, I know they're they're all friends.

Oh yeah, those are amazing, yeah! But, um, so like, uh, actually, yeah, so I traveled in Kakheti, and that was like my um, the first long time, uh, traveling um period in Kakheti, like just several weeks ago, and I just fell in love, uh, to that place because it's so beautiful, and there is like this amazing vineyards, and amazing valleys, um, and I really liked that. But also, like in Muretti's case, so, one hand, once you have this small amount of vineyards almost everywhere in Muretti, it's a hard you, because, like If you need to move like you need to be fast and also you need to move like those places very quickly, and then you need to have your eyes everywhere else but at the same time it's very nice because once you want to make this terroir wines, you have beautiful, like amazing terroirs and each vineyard is like absolutely different, so that's that's like that's the beauty of this small amount of vineyards.

I think, yeah uh oh, sorry uh Zoe do you have any uh questions for Gavansa from uh everyone listening? Um no questions as such um mainly um we have one dedicated um supporter who wanted to say that Via's wine changed her from liking Georgian wine, she thought that she had a very strong opinion so loving that Heidi has finally joined the boat, and that we all want to um travel together. And I think that's a great thing to say to Georgia. Um, how has climate change like really affected wine making in the past few years? I guess would be the first question. Yeah, so can I answer now or okay? So, guys, maybe we can set up the rule that each question will be like one box of brownie mix, and once you come in Georgia, I'm gonna count, I'm gonna write down, and bring those boxes.

Yeah, actually, um, this is that's like a very important question, and that's the uh, I think that the question will or what we can feel like uh during almost every day uh the working uh in a vineyard uh so we um get like uh the for example the new disease or like a new um uh the insect problems let's say in our region we uh which we never had before and for example which are the very um the normal from the different uh part of georgia but in emirate it's very unusual and like um the last few years uh we are facing with those problems and at the same time which is what is very hard to um flow is a weather so weather is like for example um in a in a past time the weather was uh let's say so you knew uh for example in the past time the weather was uh let's say for example if it was a spring time which kind of weather was um coming during those months but now you never know if it will be uh the snow or if it will be like a super holy day in march which which is not fair for the march time so the the the raining uh times are moving now uh a little bit uh the different we had like a lots of frost and we kind of don't have now uh so we lost that uh and snow so we uh we don't have snow now in more or less uh a few years which really affects our uh the vineyards um and the some of the people uh even in red region they start thinking now for the irrigation system uh and in the past time we had like A lot of uh the rain, raining seasons, but now, June and July and August are became like our, they are very, very dry and very hot, so those are like a very, uh, everyday problems let's say for us um, and yeah, so yeah, no, I mean it's funny that that question comes up you know with all the winemakers um, that you know we've had um, you know that we posted uh, through throughout the weeks of lessons that we've done this and I think uniformly that idea that you know it's not only about warmer temperatures but it's about less predictable and more dramatic weather events um, keeps yeah yeah, and there's less regularity to you. know the the cycles of the season than there ever was before so yeah as a as a small farmer it's much more difficult to um you know make informed decisions about you know how you want to work the land yeah exactly like for example um like what we kind of lost is uh the the fall and uh spring so at least that's uh what my grandpa is saying because like um after uh winter we are facing like sometimes directly to the summer days like hot summer days and then like we are we like we can't see the fall like we are facing to the the winter after summer and also like for example last two years was very um dramatically different uh to compare to each other because we are counting all the time like harvest days like when we start harvest and when we finish and for example um two years ago we start harvest 13th september which is like i mean super early for emeriti and at least like a very early even for cajeti like for emeriti 13th september harvest is like uh i i don't know like really really really early july or uh yeah exactly exactly but last year was more normal so we had like in 29 september we started to harvest and this year we want to go back to our roots and we'll see um so i did want to talk to sitka though so you have uh a sparkling wine here very exciting that I know this is your project too, this is uh Gapanta's label um so if anything goes wrong uh we know who to blame uh there is this a wine that was uh aged initially in Cabernet and then um you uh um kind of uh bottled early for sparkling or was it something that was in tank or okay so uh the story of uh our sparkling wines uh uh the case is that so it was uh me and my brother and we were just like uh discussing and it was I think a week um early before harvest and we just why like what will be happen if we will make a sparkling wines and do like we were asking each others like if we knew what was it and like what was the technology and so we have a french friend and uh i was going to be the jones yeah exactly those people are crazy like vincent is a super helpful person like for us and i was like hey dude like can you help me too we want to make a sparkling wine in a wine and he was like do you want to make a sparkling wine in a wine and he was like once i know it's not like a cooking recipe what you can just like a copy paste and made you really need to research and you really need to experience but but like we were thinking okay like if we will not try now so that means we will um not understand this at least this one year uh so we um we read a lot and we also went to see vincent and he's like i mean in georgia generally winemakers super super super helpful people and it really does not matter like how let's say silly question you have or if you have like a really wrong question they will listen you and they will really give you very very very good advices and that's like very helpful once you once you want to start something and you need the help that's like a really really right place to be uh and um so and in our sparkling wines case so uh that bottle is our second year so in the last year's case it was uh there was a uh some bottles who just broke and our the wine sellers like inside the the the it was a horrible sounds and the crazy but this year we were like more serious and more like uh careful with with the stuff and more enjoyable as well which is like one year experience um yeah and so the the way how we uh work with the titka uh pet nut this year was um we wait until sugar uh level was like pretty low um in a fermented grape juice and the fermentation was in february and so the reason why fermentation we love to do in february is that you have this like that you don't have that much problems uh with a temperature inside the the grape juice so it's a pretty stable it's not like a very very very stable but it does not go like really up and Down, um, and then like the fermentation was in February, and then, uh, during the bottling, the end, you know, in a sparkling like, in a pet nuts case, it's always like that.

You need to check and during the fermentation process, you can't really go anywhere else, like during two weeks, you just need to be like into winery, not even at home or whatever, you just need to like eat and go back and check the sugar level, and I mean, it could change overnight, yeah, no, like for example, if it's uh during nighttime, you need to check like uh three or four times at least uh, I um, but yeah, he's saying that we are drama queens in that case, and it doesn't really need to be like that crazy there but uh you know when you don't know something and you are in a learning process you just need you don't you don't want to miss the uh the opportunity uh so that's uh check your phone every two hours and uh yeah exactly exactly so and then so we bottled um and then uh the the bottles were in on the horizontal positioning during the two months and then we uh the vincent helped us to buy those pupitres like these wooden rocks and so we put the bottles there and then we do uh this uh remoire which was very very very interesting actually and lots of fun to do um and then we do uh the gorgeous um yeah and we Uh, like a corked not corked, like we we use those cans again, and yeah, and that was our, our patnatti project, it's really beautiful, and I know SICKA is a grape that traditionally can go into sparkling wine because of its higher acid, and yeah, yeah.

And also, like I really like TITSKA as a type of grape, so, okay, in a tzitzka and Karahuna and Solik Auris case, you have this like a maximum the ripeness what you can really get into the grapes, yeah? And after that time, if you catch that right moment, you are like super lucky, and after that it goes down. And so in Tzitzka's case, it's a very nice grape and very interesting grapes because, like, maximum, because there's actually two types of Tzitzka. There is a yellow Tzitzka and there's a green Tzitzka. And in yellow Tzitzka's case, you can really do amazing wines, like calm wines, but once it's like this green Tzitzka, this like a maximum ripeness what you can get, it depends also on the terroir, but so in our terroir's case, what we have is like a 20% sugar is like really maximum what we can get and if we catch that, so then that means that it was a good year.

And for the sparkling wine, it's nice because in that case, you have this beautiful balance with the acidity, but also with this ripeness inside the rumen. Because it sees a little time on the skins too, no? No, in Tzitzka's case, we did not have it with the skin, it was direct press. Yeah, it was direct press. But in Solik Auris' case, we had with 30% skin. Oh, excellent. And that is, it should be said that's different than Kaketi too, because traditionally Kaketi, they would add more of the skins, whereas Imereti, only a portion for, you know, kind of a smaller amount of time. Yeah, so we call like our wines, we call like light February wines, because it does not have like a super amber color, but it has this like beautiful yellow color.

And also you can feel like this, because it's in Imereti's case, actually, it's a; it's all about like balance between acidity and tannins, because once you have these two fixed up into the wine, you really need to be very careful and you need to have like a good combination with these two. And, and with this, like, for example, in our case, we love to use this 30% skin. And there is this secret that once also you have this little skin contact, your nature, it's more powerful; we don't use any cultural yeast during the fermentation process, but we never have, that's like a headache with a fermentation process. So you, you, you, you are like less worried how the yeast will start fermentation, because you know that from the skin, you have like some extra yeast in the wine.

Natural nutrient, natural brownie mix for the yeast. All right. So two, two red wines here. We have a lot of Sturi. And so, help me, help me with pronunciation on this one. So. Okay. So it's Alada Sturi. Alada Sturi. And it's Otchanuri Sapere. Otchanuri Sapere. Okay. Okay. That's, that's like two brownie mix. Okay. Okay. I understand. Now, it should be said that these are two grapes. I love, for me, the Imereti style, it's more like analogous to the Loire Valley. Whereas, you know, Kakhetian wines are more like the Languedoc or Southern Rhone. You know, they're just like bigger Mediterranean ones. And these are two of my favorite grapes in Georgia. Aladari Sturi makes these really very light, almost like dark rose-ish. You know, yeah. Yeah.

And then Otchanuri Sapere's other, Otchanuri Sapere's actually what the French call Tintouret. So it's a red flesh grape. It's very unique. It's actually, it's a grape of extremes. It's really hard to work with. A lot of people will co-ferment Ocarnisa Peri with Sola Cori, like Archil does a lot of that, because it's such a big wine on its own. This, I should say, these are amazing wines and it, you know, you are young wine makers and it's really fun, vintage to vintage, to see the wines develop and evolve and these are new labels as well and they're beautiful. Talk about this vintage for these two grapes and how they differ and, you know, how you approach the winemaking with them.

Okay, so first of all, thank you so much and thanks for mentioning, like, the labels, because, like, we were, so that was, like, the thing, can you, but the question is, can you recognize that there are, like, a keveris on the label or not really? There are keveris on the, oh yeah, you're sitting on one, yeah. So that, well, so in Ocianrsa, let's start now, the bit of gossiping about Ocianrsa and the Alanta story from this year, because this year, like, 2019 actually were a really good year, because we were trying to wait, like, as long as we can and then we had, like, a bit late harvest in those grapes case, because the idea is that if you pick them early, then in both cases, but mostly in Ocianrsa's case, you have more problems in that time.

If you pick them early, then you have like this super, super high acidity inside. But if you wait a little bit, and if you have like a 24% sugar inside, if it's like a really good condition, then you can do like lots of different stuff from that grapes. And I would say like, that's the same in Aladasturi's case as well. Because I mean, the acidity is beautiful there, but also if you have this, the right level of sugar, then you have like a very, very good combination. And, and so the way like it was, like, I think, end of October, once we harvest, and then so we ferment in February, like these two wines, and it was like during three months.

And we could not like we did not use, even in the white wines case, also in the white grapes case, and in both red grapes. case, we don't use stamps during the making process. The reason why we don't use the stamps are, is that from the stamp, you can get like those beautiful tannins, I would say, but with Otkanuri and Aladasturi's case, we don't want to get that extra tannins inside. And we are happy to have those tannins, what we can get from the skin. So I understand traditionally too, Otkanuri is, you know, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see like Maglari Gari for the pergola. Is this yeah.

Yeah. Or what do you know? Do you know which vineyard-buyers is in here? So those are like Tsholikauari vineyards. But we have like a wire, you know, so we have a wire system in the Otkanuri vineyards case, so we don't have a Maglari. Unfortunately, I would say because Maglari is very interesting to work with. And maybe one day we will also like once we will make our new vineyards, we will try to experiment with the Mavlari in Otskhani's case and also in Al-Adastari's case because that's going to be very interesting to try. But in a Beau’s grapes case, I would say like it's about the patience because if you give them like a possibility to show like the beauty of themselves, like if you wait a little bit and if you don’t really harass them like super early or early, then the result will be beautiful.

So in our case, it's always like this. Sometimes when we experiment, we will end up with some fails, but sometimes it works. For example, like the idea that to harvest them like super late, it worked like in 2019. And that’s the kind of reason why we all do this. We also want to wait this year also without Otskhani in the Al-Adastari's case again. But it depends on the weather. So we’ll see. Do you make any wines in, you know, in a steel tank? Yeah, so we do. And this year, we were actually, so we had this project where to make a rosé, and the rosé was like very the know like every year we have some goals to hit and we try to learn like something new in the winemaking process and we also try to experiment uh something new and i really wanted to make like super light color rosette like super super like light pinky color and then um uh so paya and georgie support me in that time uh that case and then so we uh we do direct press from aldaster grapes and then we ferment in a stainless steel tank so that was um the process uh and i get like i'm calling that like salmon color uh rosette but i have a friend like um now who is from uh chicago and he's like making lots of fun on that uh termin that thing that you can't really describe wine With a fish color, but I like that color.

I mean it's like we're still discussing the princess-like Wong to look the eye of the cartridge or um pale pink, yeah, yeah, so you notice a difference between um, you know the wine uh fermented in stainless steel tank versus the wines that you ferment in oak casks, yeah? Well, I would say like to call example um to compare to uh the fairy wine versus like a stainless steel wine uh the firstly I can say that it's um about the uh okay once you have a for example red wine in February so you have this like small micro oxygen uh like oxygen connection inside uh which is like very interesting and very nice. once you're doing like tiny coins, like a very full-bodied uh the red wines or if you want to do amber wine, it really helps.

So it's like uh, the we call it, like this manageable uh amount of oxygen, which helps wine to be uh, come like more violet and more like uh, rounded, let's say. And uh, in a stainless steel tank's case, I would say that once you ferment wines, you can't really get like any benefits from the jar during their making process. So um, and in in the service case, you have this uh, like what we believe is that you have this a beautiful extra minerality inside. So um, and also uh, it is very comfortable for me as a person. Who tries to make wine because of, um, about the, like, a temperature, uh, process, because I mean, in we have a stainless steel tanks in uh the winery, because once we pump wines from the, uh, February, we put in a stainless for aging, because in, uh,  we have like a, uh, small enemies in a in a wine world, let's say we like our biggest enemy is oxygen, in number of um mostly in our white wines case, because it's like less skin contact and it's not like really strong in alcohol, and we always try to use like very limited amount of sulfide, the oxygen is like one of the first uh the problem or headache and once we um finish fermentation in in february uh with the skin and then when it's time to uh separate wine from the skin and from the big leaves as well so we pump it and we put it in the stainless and then so uh we kind of protect our wines from the oxygen in that time the that period of time so you get you get some stabilization in tank after you know the initial yes yeah yeah yeah cool um so do you have any additional questions for the commentariat today yeah absolutely um first did um the fact that uh you make red wines and your sister makes white wines does that come from the preference that you prefer to drink red wine since she prefers to drink white wines no uh well so no uh so the both of us we love uh to drink like uh the the let's say the red and white white wines but it's um it was like a really her idea to put me uh into the charge of the red wines case but then like we really end up that uh so right now for example we like we feel pain when we have a problem with white or with the red wines case at the same level is your brother gonna get like dessert wine or cha-cha or actually uh so we are thinking about it um we will see so it's up to him like what he wants to uh try but the let's say uh the percentage of working what those three of us uh are doing in in wine's case is that it's uh So, let's say so we try to do uh our best and you know we have a friend who, uh, he likes uh, he's visiting us um every summer in Georgia and uh, like last three summers once he's coming he always plans some trips to go like to see the countryside and he's always like trying to, uh, push us to come but unfortunately the time when he is coming is a time when we are working in rainy years so we can't really go anywhere else, uh, so we can't give us our like weekend or make a holiday when it's a working time you know and, uh, like this year, uh, he somehow managed to come during this crazy time and we're tired, so these are some good we were really apologizing. that we can't join him and he was so angry and he said that like you know guys if you don't take a time like a free time from the vineyard it will never let you go anywhere else and and we just realized that like wine became like a biggest part of our life because we really enjoy to work even in during the hot days or during the raining days outside of uh the in the field or in a wine cellar so it's it's it's a very very beautiful like process to to be so we are very thankful for that like to buy a first of all yeah absolutely i'm gonna cry now what do you think that the future of um georgian wine on an international scale will be in the next decade so um um so there are like a really uh that's actually oh again also very hard question but i would say that um in a georgian wines case um we have like beautiful terroirs here like very interesting places and also this biodiversity like if you go in a western part or eastern part or like like north or south you have those small villages like a small uh the wine regions where you can find like you can find like thousands of thousands of different terroirs and different wine vineyards and i would say like if um and i feel also like georgian people really love to make wine and i always say that's like there are lots of people in big cities who are doing wines in a garage so which means that uh they are enjoying uh to doing this and um if we will continue thinking about to make terroir wines um i hope that's gonna be like the the more future of georgia we're gonna circle back i wanted to that seems like a great segue um i want to give uh noel a chance to talk about a couple more uh staples in his book and uh gavanta we're still gonna ask for some help with pronunciation um because you talked about these you know beautiful terroir in um in georgia and you know i think it's interesting because you haven't seen in georgia and i've heard of you know People say it's an open air, there's a Soviet soil scientist who said it was an open-air museum of soil, so there's tremendous diversity, um, tremendous diversity of grapes that you know on a vineyard, the vineyard level people are just kind of starting to unlock and explore and have an opportunity to, um, uh, that takes us to Guria which is, um, the home it's Noel Brockett's adopted family home, um, his wife is from Guria, his mother-in-law's family is there, uh, he's making wine there, um, uh, from this grape, Gavanta. Can you help us with this one? Absolutely! So, it's Chavary ah, so come on, that's really Hebraic. kind of uh like that exists and uh yeah or you can say like chakveri it's not gonna be good i'm not gonna pass this test i'm sorry uh but uh no will you tell us about uh this particular um varietal we have two different versions here so um i wanted to give people for the sake of this one a sense of you know what happens when you leave um you know uh guria is is kind of like amaretti even more so cooler wetter um and in this case you have a very light late ripening grape into november um and uh wine um with um you know mere hours on the skins here and then uh you know weeks on the skins um you know what you like about this offering and and the Way that, uh, you know Datto is working with it well, um, first I mean so great to be listening to Guanta, I mean it's what what we do in the wine business, um, is the greatest joy is to be in relationship with people with such passion and interest and I'm so super excited that we got to hear from you, it's always good to hear from you friends and uh and also that you all of you get to hear from her, Guanta is yeah a place really near and dear to my heart, I mean I I joke with Guanta and by all the time we're talking I'm always talking to them about Guanta, um, even though they're from Amaretti and I'm selling their wines but um and my good partners.

In cafeti, they're always saying 'why don't you go to Guria' but there's there's something really important um about Guria as you see for me personally uh you're exactly right to say that um my mother-in-law is there so it's a little blue region down in the left corner it's one of the smallest uh regions in Georgia, these are just showing the so the winemaking regions um but um it's one of the smallest um but like Amaretti and like the western part of Georgia it has so much to offer that's just being unpacked, so Traveri um is the kind of the most planted right now in Guria um it's not the only there are 62 varieties that are endemic to The area for its size it makes it the most diverse for its size, obviously.

Mesretia, which is in the south, has the most. Even though the Cajetans might try to fight about that, but uh, anyway. There's a lot of different varieties in Georgia, and so that's why we've had these difficult names. Traveri is a really interesting grape because it is um, it's a red skin grape, I mean pink to red screen grapes. Uh, so in terms of what people might know, you can think of Pinot Noir in terms of its color, you know. It's not super dark and it's different than the other varieties but it's a really interesting grape. Um, and so you can see that Otsukano orisapere which we've had uh there it's that it's not a you know has a white flesh like most red uh varieties do so um what you're ending up happening here is that for the first wine and is that you can make a traveri in a bunch of different styles um and so typically we're talking about skin contact right or amber wines and as bill is showing you you can see you know basically you can make a white wine and you can't really make a red wine out of it you can't make a red wine out of it you can't make a red wine out of it though people are trying um but that's the interesting thing is that though it has the pigment in the skins you know even though we keep it on it's a direct press in the first wine and then it has but it still sees a little bit of skin contact um in the in the amber what we call an amber wine it is strictly not really an amber wine why do we say that because it doesn't spend much time with the skins um but you see that it comes out as a beautiful white uh variety and to me i think that wine is you know i i think all the wines that we try to make are all the wines that we try to make are all the wines that we try to make are all the wines that we try to make are killing it too but i really think that wine is killing it this year so get your get yourself a chance to try it and then the other wine is a wine that's aged on the skins for one month and typically if you made a red grape with one month of skin contact you'd be talking lots of color right but that is the nature of traveri is that it is not a very dark color so we call it a rosé but for an american to call it a rosé would be like not right you know we'd be like more like a rosado but again that's a different thing so i think that's a different thing i think that's a second thing i think that's a different thing i think that's a different thing i think that's a make sense to americans anyways so we just call rosé to say try it you know so it's more like A light-bodied red, but it's got all of this acidity um because that's the nature of their grape and the thing to say about those two wines and who makes them, it's really important so that's like the grape that's the region it's it's very similar to Amareti, it's hot and humid, both of them are growing wine they're both growing tea, Coria is growing mandarins um so it's very diverse in terms of subtropical climates but it's exactly like uh a bunch of saints. It's hilly and it's got its own mountains, but they're not quite as tall. So you get all this microdiversity, right? But that's true of Georgia in general, but very true in Korea.

And so you get this lush greenery and then grapes, and the, a part of the grapes that are being used. In fact, the first time that we imported dates in 2016, half of the entire production; but now in 2019, it's; we've helped him literally through your sales, have helped him plant more vineyards. And now he has other vineyards that are younger, but in general, a part of the wine that's made in both of those, both the rosé and the amber, comes from a single vine tree, one single vine tree that is 150 years old, at least. And this is a wine that in the Gurian region, they didn't use to do wire trellising systems. The vineyards didn't look like what you did, but they used to do is that they would plant vineyards next to trees and the vineyards would climb the trees and they would literally go up on ladders and they would hand pick it.

So, the, the, on the rosé it's featured a very special basket of Gideli, which is unique in, in Guria, which is made specifically so that you could take it up the ladder with you and hang it onto the tree and pick the grape vines this way. Now this vine was originally planted with a tree. That tree had - they talk about global warming, the changes. So 50 years ago already, 50 years ago, why did they plant next to trees? They planted next to trees because they found that it was easier that the grapes were growing. They were better quality than they weren't having as much mold. They weren't having as fungus and things like this. What happened 50 years ago is that, actually, changed.

And so they, they realized that it wasn't even enough, but they had to address the sort of problems that you had with the fungus and mold and other things like this. So they cut down the tree. The tree actually didn't last as long as the vine. So they cut down the tree and then they have it, what's called [which is what you were talking about, Bill]. It's high trellis system over his entire yard. And again, it's, it's a tiny amount of space, but it's literally his whole yard is covered by two grape vines that are going. And so they have a system where they can put it up with bamboo sticks taller and lower so that whenever they need to spray, or if they need to get more aeration, which is the biggest problem there, you can raise it up and down.

So that though, the long and short is that Guria is very interesting. Not very much wine is being produced there. A huge legacy of the Soviet union that almost all of the wine making and endemic varieties were almost wiped out, but there's a few heroes, just like once as a young generation hero. And in Marathi, there's a few heroes in the west who are really fighting and just pure, pure circumstance and love and passion have are maintaining these things so that us crazy people can go there and just love them and then try to support them. And that's what you guys are doing by, you know, buying these wines. So that's, that's a little bit about Guria and Dato. And he's just a wonderful man.

I highly encourage, you know, whenever the thing's all over, that you go to Kakheti and then you go to Emirati and then you go to Guria and then you go to all the other places too. It's amazing. And I will say one of my favorite things about, you know, Georgian wine culture is that, you know, you know, Gavante, you talked about winemakers being receptive and open to any questions. And, you know, I don't think there's a sense that wine making is something remote or, you know, kind of sanctified or, or any different than any agricultural product in Georgia. It is, you know, very much food, you know, it's something that you always have on the table and something that, you know, in as much as you milk your cows every morning and you make fresh cheese, you know, you're going to make wine because that's just what, you know, people, people do.

And, you know, that's, that's part of, you know, the, the lifestyle there. And, you know, I think, you know, for, for us, especially in the United States, you know, we've become very far removed from our food, you know, which comes, you know, wrapped in plastic and, you know, several steps removed from people growing, but especially for our wine as well, you know we don't have this, you know, connection to wine as an agricultural product. And we certainly don't have a connection to the people that are making it. So Gavante, how has the interest, kind of the international interest in you know, your wine changed the way that, you know, your family is able to work in Emirati?

So in our case, like since our childhood, let's say the, the time of the vineyard and winemaking, what like my parents and grandparents are spending was like this. So they were working like with us all the time, like during the year in, in a vineyard. And then they were moving to the wine cellar. And then I was going like, as usual, over the sleeve because it was like very long working process. And then they were crushing grapes in February. And then the fermentation process was starting. And then we were making like a drinking lots of grape juice. And that was that, that was the process. Okay. What, what we were doing. And since we started, like since Baia started putting our wines into the bottle, we were like facing lots of different points.

And we were just like entering more deeply and deeply into the wine world. And then, so we realized that you have this beautiful, amazing, like traditional knowledge, what you can follow, but also there are like a different and lots of beautiful spaces where you can make a lot of experiments and what you can drive, like really crazy, like a very, very joyful journey, what you can, where you can find. So what we decided to do was that, like every year, this is like our agreement, let's say, we try to make like 70% of our grape juice, what we have, we want to make like with this traditional way and with a way like what we love to continue. But also we always want to try something new and figure it out.

Like if we can create something, and then maybe after January, like the generations after us, they would say that, you know, like our grandpa and grandma, they were like, they were doing this way. So why not? Because once you do wine and once you really put everything there, you just figure it out that, I mean, you can try this and that, and you can do like a lots of, lots of different experiments. It's not like about, you know, vineyard working process case, because once it's about the vineyard, then you really need to be very careful. And you really need to respect the wine trees and be like a super gentle and very careful. But once it's about the wine cellar work, then you can give yourself possibility to try like something new as well.

So that's, so that, and then also we figured out that like, you can't really stop learning. Like, if you're like more than 100 years old, and if you are still doing wines, you can't stop the working and the learnings, because that's the learning process and you can enjoy very, really much with the learning process. So that's, because of that, it's very hard to call, for example, for us, ourselves like the winemakers, because, you know, like if you say that you are winemakers, that means that like you are very, very, very, very knowledgeable person with like at least this, like a really big experience and something like that. We are still like doing the learning process and we love this way. And then we love to like the fail and we love to make mistakes and like try something new and whatever.

So that's that. I think, I think that's really important. And I think, you know, the most intelligent people I know, the ones that are the first to admit what they don't know. And then on top of that, one of my favorite expressions about winemaking is a French expression about gardening. They would say, you know, 'I no more make a wine than a gardener makes a flower.' You know, so there's always an element of humility that comes into working with wine and something that essentially, you know, kind of creates itself. And, you know, there is so much to know that you can't help but be humbled in the face of it all. We're going late here, which feels very fitting because I can remember I went to a lunch in Georgia that was a superb, that wrapped up at six o'clock.

And we got back on the bus and we had another superlative to go to. So we're not going to go quite that late, but it is fitting. And we have to, we have to talk to Kaketi a little bit. We kind of put, we buried the lead a little bit here. So Kaketi produces about two-thirds, if not three-quarters of the wine that comes out of Georgia. And it is, you know, the largest region for the sake of volume. It is much hotter and drier than the regions that we've explored so far. And, you know, it has much to recommend it. The Soviets really consolidated production in Kaketi. It is, you know, like Gavanca said earlier, cartoonishly beautiful. It looks like Middle Earth.

It's this land of this dramatic valley informed by these two rivers that are, you know, kind of the Georgian equivalent of the Tigris and Euphrates. But then you have the high Caucasus that rises dramatically, you know, to the north of it all. And it is absolutely stunning. You know, unfortunately, most of the vineyards are planted in the valley. Historically, there were a lot of smaller holdings in the hills. But, you know, again, under the Soviets, most of the production was consolidated in the valley. But it is a much more sun-kissed region. Gavanca said, you know, harvest happens a lot earlier there. They get much more ripeness on the grapes they work with. And the grapes that they do work with are the ones that I think, you know, most American consumers, to the extent that they know George Moore, would be more familiar with.

So we have two here. Gavanca, help us one more time with these two. What do we have? So it's a Svane, which means green. And it's a Cacitelli. Cacitelli. Cacitelli. Okay. I feel like that's the one I've gotten decent at. And, you know, as far as I understand it, Svane, the word for green, there are at least six different Svanes across Georgia regionally that are genetically distinct. And, you know, from one region to the next, they just adopted locally, you know, the same adjective for, you know, these distinct varietals. Cacitelli very much, you know, the kind of noble white grape of Georgia and the one that has spread the furthest internationally. It's very cold hardy and it retains acid really well as it ripens.

An amazing winemaker here, very much a father figure for the current generation of Georgian winemakers trained at UC Davis. Do you want to talk about these two wines, Noel, for the sake of the folks listening? Of course, it's the Cacitelli and the Svane because, you know, for me, they're really great yin and yang out of, you know, Cajete. They're kind of made this, you know, in a similar style, but, you know, in terms of the flavor, you know, they both share this sun-kissed kind of full of fruitiness, but, you know, they are dynamic in different and really fabulous ways. Yeah, totally. And I want to give a shout out on the call with us is Rezzo from Naotari, which is another amazing, his father is an amazing winemaker. from Cajete as well.

And hi Rezzo, it's good to see you. And everybody should try his Saporavi. We just tried it together, Bill and me. Delightful. It's really great too. Delightful. Not the only wine he makes, but yeah, I mean, Orgo obviously is Gogidake surely and his son Temuri. It's elegant styled amber wines, which most people on this call, probably their first amber wine was some kind of experiment like this, which is that it's a wine that was aged on the skins for six months. Okay, so Baia and Guanta are doing 30% of the skins for three months. This is six months of the skins complete, right? And this is the traditional, what we call Cajuri or Cajetian style. And it's typically the one that you got, that you saw in the US first, right?

And like we said, there's a spectrum, but what's really interesting is that if you accept that premise and understand that when you do six months of skin contact, you're basically making a red wine in some respects, you know, it's questionable, right? If you understand that it's not a white wine and that's what you're looking for, the Roccatatelli and Mizzuane of Orgo offer you some really unique insights into the two varieties. So Roccatatelli, what you're going to see on the Roccatatelli here is always lots of stone fruit. But again, with this style of wine, it's all stewed. There's nothing fresh, right? So because of that six months. It always reminds me, Noel, of like, you know, going to Whole Foods and stealing the dried apricots. Yeah, totally.

Apricot is the dominant thing in Roccatatelli and it's a very unique grape. It has this, you know, anyway, it has very unique varietal characteristics and the apricot stone fruit is very much there. And then you're getting to these sweet spices and then boom, tannin. But Orgo is trying to balance that tannin. It's more moderate, right? So, they're what we call a natural wine, but they are monitoring malolactic fermentation very specifically and they're usually adding a tiny amount of sulfur to stop the malolactic fermentation during that. The Mitzvahane is a very, again, properly called Cajuri Mitzvahane because They say 'Cajuri', Mitzvahane Cajuri, don't they? Cajuri, Cajuri. Yeah, exactly. So our coffee I'm sorry guys, I'm so sorry. And what you get out of Mitzvahane is a completely different term.

Mitzvahane is actually fuller in tannin. It is a heavier wine. They are very typically blended the Mitzvahane and Roccatatelli and it's recent that we start seeing separate single vintages of these wines. And I think it's really important because I think Mitzvahane has some of the greatest futures in my opinion and this style, again, if you accept the premise and understand the style, it is very aromatic. It is, but it's also balanced with like these very meaty kind of like cured meat, you know, things that are going on with it. And it's, I think it has a ton of potential. And so I think there's no doubt that these two wines show you the distinctions of the many different varieties that exist in Cajeti. But these are the two kind of stalwarts there.

And just to say that, you know, what Orgo does is that they focus on older vines. So this is again, the same thing as Guanto was saying, this is a winemaking family in the sense that you have professional winemakers for four generations. And I love that as an importer, what I get to do is I get to connect the people that I work with. And, you know, Gogi is just such a humble and, you know, he would not thrive on Zoom, let's put it that way. And he's a humble, small guy. And he is with the greatest heart and the greatest professionalism. And so he is literally helping so many of people and I love to be able to connect, you know, Guanto and other people together, you know, and also he's being inspired by the younger generation too.

You know, he made a pet gnat this year. Why? You know, because young guys are experimenting it and there's no doubt that there's something that they're learning from each other. And that's what I love working with people is people who are open, exactly what you guys said, that know that they don't know everything, but also are trying and working every day at becoming the best at what they do know. And those are the very much, you know, all the people that we work with I think embody that or at least the people we like to work with, we try to encourage that. That's lovely. Guanto, what are you drinking at home? Lemonade. I wanted to, so, we usually end with the toast.

I usually say it alone together, but I wanted to give you sense to offer your own toast. Okay. So with, well, as usually we drink like lots of lemonade at home, because that's like one of our favorites stuff to do right now. So I have and I would go with . I'm not like a very good toast master, but I would say like a really big thank you guys to all of you because like we are like very big distance far away right now, but we, like, if you don't support like us, how you, like, oh my God, how I would say, like, it's, it's a hard, I mean, but I want to explain is that like we are working here in Georgia, like with our big, it's, it's a fun process.

It's a, it's a nice process, but also it's very interesting to do this stuff. But if, like the support, like the, what we see from your side, it's amazing. And this means like that world is becoming more human and the people are caring more and more about each other. So I, we really appreciate this and I want to say toast about the friendship and about the love, which is, and about the peace, which is now in the world. And we care a lot about each other. So I, and also really apologize that my English is not perfect. Sometimes I couldn't express what I want to say, but I hope you understand this. And cheers to you and wish you, first of all, wonderful harvest and wonderful year as well. So beautiful.

Translates beautifully. As a person who can tell you, I've been unexpressed in Georgian many, many times. I feel your pain and we understood 100%. Zoe, do you have any other questions for us to close things out? Yeah, absolutely. First, we want your address because we definitely want to send you all the brownies and what your favorite brownies are. If they're blondie brownies, if they're double chocolate, if you like the caramel bit. Oh, any of them will be, any of them will be, we'll make sure that happens. We'll make sure that happens. And it should be said there's, you know, I think during harvest in particular, all snacks are hugely. Oh, yeah. But on a serious note, if we could just touch base about this lime tree, there's been a lot of really good questions.

I swear, I'm going to send them to Bill afterwards because a lot of them, I think that he can answer in the recap. But there was a mitzvah that was either fermented or the elevage was in the lime tree that was from Georgia. Yeah. So, that is Kirsalidze. So, that is just like quirky and I'll pull up a picture of it. That is a quirky region of the country and it's actually, you know, from what I've read of it and again, to the extent that I know anything, especially about, you know, things like Georgia because I've read stuff. But that comes from Racha, which is a mythical region even by Georgian standards and it is up in the mountains.

I actually really like the topographic map of the topographic map of Georgia for this one because you get a sense of just how remote it is from the rest of the country. So, Racha is this kind of skinny little valley and you can fly there or you can kind of like, you know, from the capital, Tbilisi, kind of work your way up and around. Noel, do you want to talk about that particular vessel while I work on a picture for? Yeah, absolutely. So, the Kirsalidze is, it's named after Apollon Kirsalidze which I like to mention every, because it's not, not every day you get to hear that somebody's name is Apollo and more people should be named Apollo. Come on. Great.

So, Apollon Kirsalidze is a very, again, not a great Zoom character, just the typical Georgian man who has been preserving vines that are like, again, should be extinct but because his family likes to drink them, they still exist and we get to drink them here too. So, he, you know, it's literally to get there you drive from Kutaisi which is the central part, the main capital of Iguanta's region and you drive two and a half hours up winding roads and you literally have to go up the mountains, over the mountains, come back down along a river valley, right? And thank you for pulling that up. So, this is the hollowed out lime tree. Again, it's not a lime like what you pick limes, there's different names for that but this is a very, very, very large tradition in, in everywhere is to do it in these troughs.

They were typically foot trodden in troughs. In, in the Kakhetian region it's typically in stone but in the west it was typically in, in wood and what's unique about this vessel is that this is a single tree, a single tree that they cut down and that they made out into this vessel and now they didn't foot trod it anyway but this one single one of five, it's about, I guess they can hold almost one ton of grapes and it's a little bit less than that, about 900 kilograms and yeah, so they, they do, what's different is that instead of doing it in stainless steel or they're doing the fermentation in, above ground in that wooden which is the name of it in Georgian, this hollowed out lime tree, they're doing the fermentation there, why?

Because again, they're way high up in the mountains, that's where that chega which is harvest comes way late in November and already the ground temperature at that time is starting to become too cold for the proper fermentation temperature so you actually had to do from, you know, temperature management and so this is what it was used for so the, they then do the fermentation of that particular wine on the skins for 14 days, 14 to 20 days depending on how long the fermentation is taken care of it into stainless steel, typically you would funnel it into vats, but those, their vats are broken. But, and hopefully if we buy all their wine, we can help restore them. So, but they make tiny amounts of wine.

That wine, there's like, we imported, I guess, 200 some odd bottles, there's like 500 bottles that exist. If you've got a bottle, consider yourself lucky and if you can find more, buy it all. And, you know, again, I think it further speaks to this through line between, you know, individual consumers and people making, you know, legitimately artisan products in a, you know, really kind of like profound and compelling way. This feels awesomely Georgian because, you know, we legitimately have to go, because we have a restaurant here. I'm gonna offer up one final toast, though. Kavonsa, you rock, thank you so much for doing this. Best of luck with your harvest. I read this today and it's very Georgian, a little dark, but you know, the Georgians have, you know, kind of a dark sense of, this is not humorous at all.

It's very profound in and of its own right, but this comes from Carla Capelbo's cookbook. It's a traditional Emiratian toast. And, you know, I thought I would offer it as a sign off to you, but, you know, best of luck, Kavonsa, with your harvest. And, you know, again, this vintage, you know, the 2019s were really stunning. You should be, you should be so proud. And it's such a pleasure to reconnect with you online. But this is, you know, this is, you know, this is, you know, this is to all of our invaders, whether Persian, Arab, Mongol, or Turk. They thought that our strength came from the vines. We burned our vines, but we didn't die, and neither did the vines. This is a toast to our ancestors and the children of the next generation that they may be inspired by our strength. Cheers to you all. Thank you. Gamma just, beautiful toast. Go ahead and have a toast.

Thank you so much, my friend. Thank you, everyone. Here's to everything a Song and context has to share.