Valentine's Day with Hipster Champagne & the One Love Foundation

Class transcript:

We are on Week number 43, and I still have trouble remembering to record. I just did, fortuitously. Happy Valentine's Day to you all. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, whether this is your 43rd lesson or it is your first. Big ups to all of the folks joining us for the first time, because we are holding an event to benefit the One Love Foundation. We could not be more excited that they reached out to us, and we're thrilled to have a charity partner for this event as well. So we're going to be, over the course of the afternoon, shamelessly parading around all the information you need to donate to the One Love Foundation. If you haven't done so already, thank you to everyone for joining us for this lesson, and particularly, you know, thank you if you did add gratuity to your order placed already, which will once again benefit the amazing work that One Love is doing to educate young people about healthy and unhealthy relationships, empowering them to identify and avoid abuse, and learn how to love better. What, you know, more, you know, kind of timely, perfect cause, you know, could you, you know, want to dial up for Valentine's Day lesson? I can't think of one. We are joined by Cole Reif-Schneider. I hope I pronounced the last names properly, Cole. Say hello to the people, Cole. You've got to unmute yourself. Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for doing this. I'm really excited. And it is, it is Reif-Schneider. It's a fine German surname. Yeah, it's German. Oh, it's, I actually say Reif-Schneider, but you, you can say Reif-Schneider. I've heard it all. Oh, it's Reif-Schneider. Is that more authentic? That's a German pronunciation, yeah. Okay. Well, I might, I might go with Reif-Schneider then. It just feels right.

Okay. Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us, Cole. Cole, you have some wine at home, do you not? I do. Oh, excellent. Excellent. Well, don't be, don’t be shy. Don’t be shy about drinking it over the course of the lesson. Okay. Yeah, we’ll, we’ll take offense if we don’t see, you know, the glass as well on your feet. Oh, nicely done. Stemless. How chic. Excellent. With us, as always, Zoe Nystrom as well, back in Washington, D.C., joining us once again. Different backdrop today, Zoe. It looks like we’re in the kitchen today. Very exciting for those of you at home to see a different backdrop for Zoe. Same, same dog running around her ankles, I would imagine. Penny, big ups if you're there. I think we're just going to give folks a few more minutes to join us.

Thank you for taking time. Thank you for taking time out of this icy Valentine's Day Sunday to join us. No flights this week, just full bottles, because we're dealing with PETNAT, and a lot of you had asked about half bottles, you know, where applicable. We try to, you know, facilitate and encourage drinking in responsible portions. That's really difficult with PETNATs. They don't really come in half bottles. Not a thing that, you know, the hipsters of the wine world have embraced as such. But it should be said that these are wines that tend to be lower ABV. So, you know, don't feel shy about polishing off a full bottle yourself at 11% alcohol. You know, maybe you'll get, you know, a little further along than you'd like to for the afternoon, but, you know, it won't set you back as much as, you know, the Zins that we were, you know, previously drinking this year.

At any rate, I encourage you, you know, to, as always, procure a couple different glasses if you're trying a couple different wines to try one against the other. You know, I would say for the sake of this lesson, though, you know, we're going to get a little, you know, you know, we're going to give more leeway for the sake of the tasting. You know, this is less about parsing tasting notes than it is about, you know, just kind of enjoying the spirit in which the wines were made and which they were created, which is all about, you know, just enjoyment on base level. You know, they are sprightly, they are fun, they're easy drinking, and they can be more than that. But, you know, first and foremost, they are festive creatures.

And, you know, to, you know, parse them, you know, to, you know, kind of microscopically feels like it is, you know, somewhat counterproductive and, you know, flying in the face of the spirit in which these wines were made. So, without further ado, welcome once more, Cole Rees-Snyder and Zoe Nystrom. Cole and Zoe, you know, we're thrilled to have you here. Cole, do you want to just give everyone a brief word about One Love? And I'll post a link for everyone if they want to get in the act early and donate. What is the One Love Foundation, Cole? Yeah, of course. Thanks, Bill. So, the One Love Foundation was founded in 2010 after Yardley Love was killed by her boyfriend. They were both fourth years at UVA. So, that's UVA lingo for seniors at UVA.

And now One Love was created to educate people on the warning signs of relationship violence and abuse. So, one in three women, one in four men, and one in two trans people will be in an abusive relationship in their lifetime. So, while it's not talked about as much as a lot of the other health epidemics in the world, it is absolutely something that affects at least a good amount of people on this call and at least one person in your life you can probably think of. So, One Love makes it our mission to educate people and eradicate relationship violence and abuse through prevention. Oh, that's brilliant. And I'm going to include a link here for you all to follow if you would like to donate. You all do Venmo as well, don't you, Cole?

Yeah, we do. So, our Venmo is at One Love Foundation. I don't know if we have any Venmo users on here, but sometimes I think that might be a bit easier, too. Yeah, we're just being shameless and just making it as easy as possible for people to get, Cole. That's an important point. That's an important part of the fundraising journey, the shamelessness. And, you know, wine helps with that. Without further ado, just a little housekeeping for you all prior to launching, formally launching this lesson with a bit of verse. It is the last day to get in on the wine event we are offering with our friends at Doden Vineyards in beautiful Anne Arundel County, Maryland, that is going off this Thursday. John Seibert, our very own chef, has dialed up an amazing three-course feast for the occasion.

There are three bottles of wine to go with from Doden. So, if you're looking for a come down from your Valentine's Day sugar high, look no further. Also, I sent around a preview of Lesson 44, if you all, you know, want to get ahead of the game and claim a flight, claim some of the food for next Sunday, you know, follow the links that I sent around for the sake of yesterday's kind of 44 preview. Without further ado. Two, a bit of verse, and this being Valentine's Day, it is, you know, 'tis very much the season for love poems. You know, it is fun for my sake to do this because it allows me to indulge my passion for poetry and, you know, kind of go through the backlog of poems and authors that I love in the name of wine school.

And Rediscovered E.E. Cummings, an author who I think I gave short shrift for, you know, the beautiful ways that he, you know, he has celebrated love in its various incarnations. You know, there's no one form of love. You know, there are many, you know, sacred, romantic, platonic, et cetera. But E.E. Cummings has, you know, really encapsulated a lot of them in verse. I love this bit of poem called In Time of Daffodils. In time of daffodils who know the goal of living is to grow, forgetting why. Remember how in time of lilacs who proclaim the aim of waking is to dream. Remember so. Forgetting seen. In time of roses who amaze are now and here with paradise. Forgetting if, remember yes. In time of all sweet things beyond, whatever mind may comprehend, remember seek, forgetting find.

And in a mystery to be when time from time shall set us free, forgetting me, remember me. I love that bit of verse. You know, it is, you know, very much flower season and, you know, I love the, you know, idea of, of growth, you know, that particular poem encapsulates for the sake of our lesson. Because, you know, we are talking growth in love vis-a-vis the One Love Foundation. And, you know, we're talking the evolution of wine as far as Petit au Naturel and natural wines are concerned. You know, wine, as we know it, you know, very much not a static entity. Wine is hugely dynamic, you know, kind of a creature. And, you know, wine has been with us since, you know, well before humans shuffled forth, you know, onto the planet.

You know, there was wine as soon as grapes evolved and, you know, were crushed in hollows and naturally fermented, you know, well before us, certainly. And, you know, there is quite a bit of scientific evidence to indicate that our ancestors, you know, be they, you know, chimps or, you know, orangutans, enjoyed those fermenting grapes. Some more than others. Fascinatingly enough, there is this really, you know, fascinating study of orangutans and chimps. And certain chimps and orangutans, et cetera, are, you know, what have evolved from our forebears, have, you know, a stronger predilection for those hollows with fermented grapes than others. So, you know, there are Bill Jensen and Zoe Nystrom's and, you know, aspiring psalms, you know, among the monkey world as well. Which I think is, you know, somewhat poetic and hugely, hugely fascinating.

So, you know, I think, you know, in considering this thing that is natural wine, we need to consider, you know, what wine is on its face. And I'm going to start with a quote that, you know, I found for the sake of this lesson. I was thrilled to discover that no other founding father than Ben Franklin, who is purported to have said that beer, of all things, you know, the most profane of drinks is evidence that God loves us, was actually celebrating beer when he was referencing God's love. And it's a beautiful quote because he references the Feast of Cana. So he's actually writing in French originally to a fellow philosopher. And he said, we hear of the conversion of water into wine at the marriage in Cana as of a miracle.

But this conversion is through the goodness of God made every day before our eyes. Behold the rain which descends. From heaven upon our vineyards in which incorporates itself with the grapes to be changed into wine. A constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy. So it was indeed the fruit of the vine and the miracle of fermentation that was proof that God loves us. Not beer, as, you know, hipster brewers would have you believe. So, you know, make sure that you reference that the next time that, you know, a hipster brewing friend, you know, misattributes that quote to, you know, the outgrowth of barley and not, you know, the miraculous product of the fruit of the vine.

At any rate, you know, when we consider natural wine, when we consider something like Piquant Natural, I think it's important to understand that, you know, wine itself is a very natural thing. As Franklin says, it will, you know, naturally come about. It naturally came about before we shuffled forth onto this planet. And, you know, likely we'll still be around after we have shuffled off. What could be more natural than wine? I think the question is, you know, when we consider the natural wine movement such as it exists now, is how did wine lose its way? How did wine come to be considered unnatural in the first place? How did something sacred become profaned so that there was need to reassert its naturalness?

That is the true question of natural wine and Pétillant Naturel, which is one of the, you know, in my mind, purest and most kind of fun expressions of natural wine in the world today. And. You know, I think in, you know, kind of unlocking that we need to consider what wine was for the bulk of human history. Wine didn't change much from the first time that it was made. The grapevine, Vitis vinifera, was first domesticated in Transcaucasia, in what is now modern Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Although the Azeri's don't drink much anymore. But that was 7,000 years ago, 8,000 years ago. And, you know, in the intervening thousand plus years, you know, there were, you know, fits and starts. There were some, you know, certainly revolutions that came about over time.

You know, the grapevine was taken from the forest. It was, you know, you know, kind of trained in various styles. Pergolas first that mimicked its growth patterns in the forest and then in handsome rose in the vineyard thereafter. It was, you know, fermented at first in stone pits. Clay jars, barrels entered the scene toward the end of the Roman era. And then, you know, the monks of the Middle Ages themselves, you know, were very fastidious and scientific about identifying the best sites and about, you know, modernizing their vineyard practices to create, you know, wines that could endure for longer and wines that were truly celebrated vintage to vintage. And, you know, they codified some of the greatest vineyards that, you know, still exist. And.

And, you know, the wines that are celebrated to this very day, but the very process of making wine didn't change that much until the 19th century when Louis Pasteur in 1857 first unlocked the mystery of fermentation and first attributed, you know, to yeast, the mechanism of fermentation. That was the great discovery that really transformed wine as we know it and unlocked it for the sake of, you know, the scientific inquiry into wine. But, you know, through. Through really the modern era, through the last 50 years, the method of making wine did not change all that much. And, you know, it was, you know, in these traditional regions where wine was made, you know, made in a very romantic style.

And I love this quote from a wonderful book called Wine at War, which really, you know, kind of embodies the romance entailed in that winemaking process. And this is a winemaker reflecting on what life in the village was like before the World Wars. And he says that life was one of legend and myth, a life which in many ways had changed little since the Middle Ages. It was a simpler time in the vineyards. We had a way of living, a way of making wine that was natural and très ancient. It was made the way their grandfathers and great-grandfathers had made it. There were no experts to rely on. So everyone followed the traditions they knew and had grown up with. Plowing was done with horses, planting, picking, pruning were done according to the phases of the moon.

Older people. Older people. Reminded younger ones. The merits of pruning were discovered when St. Martin's donkey got loose in the vineyards. Days began early and lasted until the work was done. There were no fixed hours as they pruned, checked formalities, tied back shoots that had come loose day after day, week after week, month after month. Workers came to know each vine personally. There was an almost mystical connection as they let the vines set the rhythm and pace of life. And the wine essentially made itself before people understood that yeast were doing the work. They understood, you know, kind of romantically the notion of fermentation. And they knew that, you know, if they left wine around, it would be transformed into something alcoholic. They knew that a poisonous noxious gas, you know, would be emitted.

And, you know, they understood that if they bottled too early, they could capture some of this gas. Which essentially is, you know, what we are considering for. The sake of these pet-nat wines. And I'm going to share a screen here and show you an image of, you know, just a basic, you know, rendering the fermentation process. It's just as simple. You have a single cellular organism in yeast that consumes sugar and grape juice. And it makes alcohol, ethanol alcohol. The yeast itself produces energy in the form of ATP for itself. But it also produces CO2. Now, in a traditional environment, typically. That CO2, it blows off. And, you know, nothing of it remains in the finished wine. But if you bottle the wine too early, before fermentation is finished.

If you pop a cap on a bottle, the CO2 is dissolved in the wine. And you end up with something that is lightly effervescent or petillon. And that is essentially what we have in a method ancestral wine here. And the first one we're going to consider is our. Vivace Sparkler. And, you know, part of the joy of covering these wines. Especially for the sake of you that, you know, kind of are new to our class. Is that we're going to get to take a really fun foray into different corners of the old world. And a few corners of the new. And, you know, this will be very much a world tour of these, you know, isolated pockets of the wine world. That have embraced these ancient techniques.

And the first stop on this world tour, for our sake. Is going to be in Italy. Is going to be in the beautiful region of Brutto. And I'm going to pull up a map. And this is the Robesco. So, for those of you that purchased this wine, it's got, you know, a lovely kind of Roman era font. It is Bianco Vivace. And you'll notice you don't see Petillon Natural ascribed to this wine. And we'll talk about why that is in just a moment. You see the Vivace nomenclature. And Vivace is an Italian designation. It kind of predates Petillon Natural, which as a term wasn't coined until the 1990s, really. And this Vivace style was your grandfather's wine throughout Italy. It was a bit of a cellar mistake in Italy.

And it tended to be even more lightly effervescent than some of the pet nects that people have become used to today. So, we are in Brutso. We're kind of the, you know, that sexy kind of spot behind your knee for the sake of Valentine's Day. Okay. Of the boot. The boot lends itself to all sorts of, you know, kind of fetishy descriptions when it comes to where we are. Sadly, there are no tow wines today. But a Brutso miles from the Adriatic coast. We have the Adriatic Sea on the eastern side of the boot. And a wine here that comes from Trebbiano, which is the ubiquitous Italian grape. Zoe, what does this wine taste like to you at home? What do you get? This is Trebbiano. It's made in the Vivace style.

I'm going to talk about the mix. It's a means of production. But let's just talk about the taste before we kind of unravel that. Yeah. I think that the nose is rather muted. I get a lot of, like, natural or neutral fruit flavors. There's a bit of, like, yellow plum and yellow apple, something that's a wee bit warmer. And there's a bit of, like, a little rosemary toasted herb going on on the top to it, which I really enjoy. But it's very delicate. Yeah. Does it taste like champagne to you, Zoe? I mean, it has a bit of that breadiness and a bit of that nuttiness. But honestly, it's, like, it's not going to be as exaggerated as fresh-baked croissants or anything like that. It doesn't get too yeasty or autolytic.

So it's, but, like, yeast and italicis, I think, goes a completely different way that's not funky yet, but is kind of somewhere out in the middle. And Zoe has jumped forward for the sake of our curriculum and gone from elementary school wine vocabulary to postdoctorate wine vocabulary in dropouts. And I think that's a really good way of describing the autolysis process, which is a very complicated way of describing the way that yeast cells break down after they die. And in sparkling wine, because the bottles are sealed before the yeast have finished their job, you end up with a lot of dead yeast cells. And if you age the wine on those dead yeast cells, you end up with this bready, brioche character that is, you know, classic in champagne, but a little less broadly attributed to pet nat, because these are styles of wine that tend not to spend quite as much time on those lees.

Now, how does that work? Well, then, is this wine made? And, you know, what gives it the texture? It almost feels like, you know, the champagne gone flat or, you know, as Garth would say in Wayne's World, you know, this Coke's gone bad. You know, but, you know, for me, it's a lighter effervescence, which is quite enjoyable. You know, the Italians wouldn't say this is spumante, which would be their word for a fully effervescent wine. They would say, you know, it's a vivace style, which is a step shy even of the frisante that they would ascribe to the Prosecco that we'll discuss in just a second. You know, it is, you know. Just kind of playfully, you know, just kind of suggestively fizzy. And that gives it this lovely freshness that, you know, the wine wouldn't otherwise possess.

And then there's this whole cider-like quality to this wine that, you know, Zoe didn't touch on that, you know, certainly champagne and other sparkling wines do not possess. And, you know, that is something that natural wines have in spades. And, you know, it can be enjoyable or not enjoyable, depending on where you're coming from. But I quite like it for the sake of this wine. Now, Trebbiano is your grape here, which is the most ubiquitous of Italians. And it's one of the most popular Italian varietals, Trebbiano. It's everywhere. It is also everywhere in France. But it goes under a different moniker in France. In France, it is called Uniblanc. And its most famous role in the vineyards of France is ultimately as the source material for cognac in particular.

It is less well known as a varietal wine as such. But, you know, nonetheless delicious. And in spite of this variety. And in spite of this ubiquity, in spite of the fact that, you know, really the Italian government paid people to uproot it, you know, you have a version here that's made in a very traditional style that is, you know, really, I think, you know, kind of fun, festive, and super delicious. It is made in a hugely traditional style. So this is a 10-hectare estate. The vines are trained on pergolas, which I named after earlier as being, you know, a very ancient form of vinification favored by the Romans. So this is, you know, a form of vine training that would allow people to plant additional crops between the rows to maximize the use of their land.

Because, you know, these are poor farmers. These are not, you know, rich doctors and lawyers in Napa, you know, creating wine as a prestige project. You know, these people are making wine for subsistence. The Roscoe family are currently helmed by a lovely woman named Ioli. They make wine on their 10-hectares, mostly red wine from grape called Montepulciano, but they make this lovely sparkler as well. This is called the Tendones-style pergola. They harvest these grapes in September. And then they make a wine that they essentially fully ferment, or as far as it will go, and store in their cold cellars. But it cools down faster than the ferment can fully complete. They rack this wine twice. Racking is the process of taking a wine off the lees during the fermentation process.

And they bottle it before the cellar warms up in spring. Which is to say that when the wine wakes up in spring, when the cellar warms, when the wine is in the bottle, there's still sugar left, there's still live yeast in the mix to complete in the process of fermentation. So the yeast finishes this fermentation process under pressure, and as it warms up, you get a process that is lightly effervescent. That is really the core truth of the method Ancestral. And it's the core truth of Petit-en-Natural, which is just a rebranding. It is a hipster rebranding of a very ancient process embodied by this particular wine. You know, this particular producer, you know, they would take pains to say that their wine is not Petit-en-Natural. It is, you know, Bianco Vivace.

It is, you know, the product of an older tradition than this newer rebranding that we have come to know and love and call Petit-en-Natural. There are other styles, you know, that survived from antiquity and, you know, have kind of different names. And, you know, we have many of those for you to taste. This is Prosecco Colfondo. So Prosecco is a wine that is a little bit different. It is from the Veneto. It is from, you know, much further north, higher on the thigh of the boot, the grape here, Galera. But this is from another fabulous family. And I know Zoe is always on the lookout for a potential Italian winemaking husband, a good-looking dude in the mix, Zoe, for the sake of this Prosecco. And he's working with Galera, which is the traditional Prosecco varietal.

But he's working with some other traditional grape, Verdi, so Bianchi Trevi. Trevigiano. And that is Bruno and his son, Martino. But this is a style called Prosecco Colfondo. It's a little different than the Vivace we're tasting because they make a wine. Then they actually add unfermented grape must to the wine at the end of the wine. So they add basically raw juice to a finished wine, and that kickstarts the fermentation process. So, you know, there are many roads to Rome. But this one is unfiltered as well. Colfondo essentially means on the base refers to the fact the wine is on the leaves. And ends up with a bit of sediment in the bottle, which is another thing that distinguishes these wines from, you know, mass marketed, you know, sparkling wines and champagnes, which are typically disgorged, which is to say they want to get rid of that sediment from the bottle.

Here they're embracing that laziness, the texture it gives the wines for the savory quality that it gives to these wines. But this is Prosecco, as was made generations ago before it got debased as, you know, the, you know, wine of choice for, you know, the bottomless brunch sets. Lambrusco, we're in, in Romania. And Italy equally has an ancient tradition of making wines in the style and the that makes isn't quite as attractive. It's a brother-sister on tandem, unfortunately, but why is delicious. This is how they call being mentioned powdering, which is, you know, wine of our father and comes from a subtype of the Lambrusco grapes. Lambrusco, actually, a family of grapes, Sorbara, one of them that's kind of dark pink and hued. And this one, bottled, you know, without any filtration or disgorgement as well.

So it's lovably murky, lovably savory for the sake of this wine. And the last one is made kind of an old style that we were selling for the sake of this lesson, Bougie Sardon. Bougie is from this mountainous corner of France. Really fun wine. This is predominantly Gamay with a little bit of a grape called Poussard in the mix as well. Bougie Sardon is actually, you know, deserves, deserves, you know, a more significant place on the brunch table. Bougie, you can't see it here, but sandwiched between, oh, there you go, Savoie and the Jura on the map. I hope no one yacked there. But you see Bougie close to the mountains. And, you know, universally, a lot of these regions come, you know, a lot of these regions are situated in cooler climates, which lends sparkling wine a brighter, kind of racy quality.

The Bougie, again, is a wine that kind of predates this modern, pet-nat renaissance. So, you know, they would say, you know, we are, you know, a more, you know, kind of classic, you know, ancient form before this thing that was, has become the pet-nat craze was, you know, rebranded and foisted upon the natural wine universe. So we are going to pivot and consider how this ancient style Petit Haut Nature became so ensconced into this broader natural wine. So, you know, we are going to move it. But before we do that, we're going to give the mic back to Cole, and she is going to talk about the amazing work that the One Love Foundation is doing to advocate for healthy relationships, particularly on college campuses and among younger people.

So, Cole, without further ado, hit it. How is the wine that you are drinking? What did you end up with? It is red. That is pretty much all. Good, good. Oh, it is clearly red. Right before I hopped on this call, y'all, you should know, I was talking to Bill earlier today, and I was like, Bill, should I watch the Sommelier docs, like, before I hop on? And he was like, Cole, just stay in your lane. I was like, okay. So, I am drinking a red, and that is pretty much as far as we are going to go. The tasting notes are red. Awesome. Exactly, yeah. Tell us about your work with the One Love, Cole. Yeah, totally. So, thanks so much.

Like I said before, if anyone missed it, One Love was started in 2010 after Yardley Love, which is one of my favorite wines in the world. And then, after the death of her boyfriend, Nicole, who was a woman who was killed by her boyfriend, her death was totally preventable, and her friends and family kind of gathered around after her death and decided, like, had they known the warning signs of relationship violence and abuse, they could have prevented what was going on. And then, after the founding of the One Love Foundation, they realized that this is really a prevalent problem, because, like I said before, one in three women, one in four men, and one in two trans people will be in an abusive relationship in their lifetime. So, we have really expanded.

We have expanded our education, not only to college campuses, but also even younger, because every time that we've educated either someone on a college campus or people even older than that, every feedback that we've gotten is, 'hey, we really wish that we knew this when we were younger. So I'm just going to talk a little bit about the education that One Love does. I think, Bill, if you want to pull up the. Absolutely. Awesome. Okay, cool. Right now, Cole. So I'm going to do what One Love does best. And you're going to do what I'm going to do. So I'm going to go ahead and just give you all a little bit of education on healthy and unhealthy relationships. It's really interesting because love is such a central importance in our lives.

Relationships are at every corner, and we're never explicitly taught how to love. You see examples of love maybe in your home as you're growing up or in your relationships. We build friendships and navigate early romantic relationships, get married and bring babies home, maybe grandbabies. I saw that in the chat as well. And with the expectation that we just kind of figure it out because everyone does. But as I've said, we often find that we harm and disrespect the ones we love, sometimes more than other people that we aren't in relationships with. No human is perfect. So every relationship, even if it's a healthy relationship, is going to have subtle things that are unhealthy, like maybe guilt-tripping a friend into spending time or sneaking a peek at your partner's text.

100% of us will be on the receiving end of unhealthy behaviors, and also 100% of us will do unhealthy things. It's just part of being a human. So on the screen here, you'll see what One Love has classified as the 10 signs of an unhealthy relationship. I'm going to quickly kind of run through those and how I see them. I'm not going to go through all of them, but just the ones that I see to be most prevalent. So intensity. You'll see that up on the top left. I am sure that everyone on the call knows what intensity is, but as you can understand, abusive relationships don't start out as abusive. If someone were to be mean to you on your first date, the first time you meet them, they hit you, you would never speak to them again.

But normally, they start out as exciting, exhilarating, and the intensity, there's an intensity of affection and emotion because it's new. It's almost like a rush, and it feels really good. But unhealthy love. With unhealthy love. You know, these feelings can kind of shift over time from exciting to overwhelming and maybe a little bit suffocating. So that would be a really good example of intensity when it goes from a shift of exciting, intense beginning of a relationship to overwhelming and suffocating. The next one I want to point out is isolation. Isolation is one of the most frequently missed and misunderstood signs of an unhealthy relationship or unhealthy love. And a lot of people are like, how could you miss that?

But also, because every new relationship, like I said, starts out pretty intense, and there's a really deep desire to spend a lot of time with your new significant other. So isolation creeps in with your new partner, boyfriend, girlfriend. They start pulling you away from your friends, family, support system, and then tethering you more tightly to them because you don't have that support system. The next one I want to talk about is extreme jealousy. So this kind of goes with intensity as well. But as the honeymoon phase of your relationship begins to fade, extreme jealousy can creep in because you might not be spending endless amounts of time with your partner. They might start following you everywhere, online, offline. Especially in today's world, it's pretty easy to stalk people, whether it's in a cyber way or just because our locations are so readily available.

Whether it's an Instagram location or your share. Sharing your location on Find My Friend, something like that. Two more I want to talk about are belittling. So this will often happen kind of in subtle ways. For example, when you're trying to explain that your feelings have been hurt to your partner, and they shut you down or accuse you of overreacting. Saying things like, why are you so sensitive? What's your problem? Give me a break. Anything like that. And then the last one that I do want to point out is volatility. Everyone has that token couple in their life. That has frequent breakups and frequent makeups. This can be a warning sign of an unhealthy relationship. Because on average, unhealthy relationships, if you're trying to get out of an unhealthy relationship, on average, you break up about seven times before it ends for good.

So I always find that fact to be a little bit jarring. I know I've talked a lot about unhealthy relationships. But before I kind of wrap up, I do want to talk about an example of a beautiful relationship I've had as an example. My parents are a gorgeous example of healthy love. They fight fair, is probably one of my favorite things about my parents, is they communicate. They don't fight. They talk through everything. And so this Valentine's Day, I encourage you all to talk, communicate with your partner. Because, like I said, all of us are going to do unhealthy things, experience unhealthy things in our lives. But it's how you navigate. It's how you navigate it together. One Love has so many resources that are available to you online.

And they put it in digestible little pockets of information. So it doesn't just seem like you are sitting in your sex ed class in middle school and there's like an old woman talking to you about how you should be in relationships. One Love makes it really approachable so that you're able to have conversations. I know I'm talking at y'all today, but conversations like the one we would be having today if we were in a room together. So. We dropped our education center in the chat and that's pretty much it for now. Just a couple quick questions for you, Cole. Yeah, go ahead. Do you have resources for people that know and love friends or family members who are in abusive relationships in terms of how they can support those people in finding ways to love better or extricate themselves from?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's actually a really good question. And the answer is yes. Because even when I'm talking about it now, it's really easy for people to say, like, oh, yes, I have a friend or I can imagine myself being in a situation of a friend trying to help a friend get out of an abusive relationship. No one ever likes to think about themselves being in that position. But the answer is yes. One Love has a plethora of resources and workshops on their website to help navigate exactly that. And then I was pretty amazed at this. And I think that's the scope of your work. So, you know, you're not a local organization. You all are national and have grown pretty remarkably since the organization was founded.

Because I can remember, you know, Yearly was, her killing was a very big local news story. Yes. And I wasn't aware of your work. And it was really exciting and thrilling to hear that something so positive came out of that tragedy. Absolutely. Because, I mean, even Sharon Love, Yardley's mom, said, like, you know, I'm going to kill you. Like, no parent should ever have to feel like this. And now One Love has educated over a million people within the United States because the best type of prevention is going to be preemptive and education so that no one ever has to be in that position again. Great. Zoe, do you have any questions, be it for me, about, you know, the ancient origins of Pet Nat? You know, 8,000 years of wine history.

And, you know. 15 minutes. Or Cole, about the amazing work that One Love is doing. Yeah. I think, I mean, as a woman, you know, we all look out for each other. And we are. I think there's, like, without gender being included, there's always in friend groups a certain amount of watchfulness, which I always enjoy. And your website has such great strategies to be able to look for those and how to implement them. I would say, like, what is the question of, like, when it gets to, like, the scary point? When it needs to have police involved? How do you navigate that interpersonal relationship without feeling like you're getting, like, your friend in trouble or causing more drama into their life, I would say?

So do you mean, like, when it comes to a place where you as a friend are trying to help another friend and it’s, like, in a scary place? Exactly. Yeah. I mean, One Love does a really good job of education. And I don’t want to make the mistake that I’m a certified counselor because I’m not. But One Love does do a really good job of talking about how to make a safe breakup plan. And we learn facts, like, in the six to eight weeks following a breakup of an abusive relationship, you’re 72 times more likely to be killed by your partner. So after the breakup is going to be the most dangerous period. And that’s a really startling and scary fact. But that's why One Love emphasizes so much the importance of a safety plan for breakups.

Because a lot of times, people don't know. A lot of times, people are just like, 'why don't you just leave an abusive relationship?' But kind of like you hinted at, it's really not that easy. And that's why it's really important that you have a plan in place because it's not going to be black and white. There is a gray area. And every situation is really different. Thank you. Great. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us, Cole. You're going to come back and you're going to have a toast for us at the end of the lesson. Oh, boy. And you're going to be able to give us a tasting note other than red for the wine that you're drinking at that point as well.

Not to put too much pressure on you. But we considered basically effervescence in wine is an old thing. And CO2 is a natural byproduct of fermentation. So it only goes, it's very fitting that occasionally this natural byproduct ends up dissolved in the wine itself. And, you know, in the case of the first wine that we tried, Bianca Biace, you know, that happened, you know, kind of at first by accident. Then, in a way that the Italians in Abruzzo, in Emilia-Romagna, in the Prosecco zone, you know, the French, in places like Bouchy-Cerdon, in places like, you know, Gaillac, in other corners of the world, you know, learn to harness for the sake of these lightly effervescent wines. And this is before champagne.

And it should be said that, you know, the most significant difference between champagne and wine, and, and pet net, as we can just understand it, is the A, the amount of bubbles. So champagne has a more effervescence. It's bottled under high pressure. But also the way those bottles come about. So Petit Natural is made in a process called the method ancestral. And there are a lot of tweaks that you can make to that method. But the core truth of it is that it's just a, You can just think of it as a wine that's bottled early. And because it's bottled early, while there's still sugar and active yeast in the bottle. It finishes fermentation under pressure. And, et voila, you know, there are bubbles in the glass. Dom P. sees stars.

You know, we're all, you know, living life in a grander fashion on our front porches. But, you know, as Petit Natural is concerned, you know, insofar as the natural wine making movement goes, you know, a very fascinating origin story there. And we kind of have to go back to the industrialization of wine in the first place. So we name-dropped Louis Pasteur, 1857. He, you know, unlocks the scientific mystery, you know, yeast. They gobble up the sugar, you know, byproduct, alcohol, and CO2 of their energy production gives us wine. You know, he unlocks that mystery for mankind. Concurrently, you have all of these blights that have everything to do with, you know, the fact that the world is getting worse. The world is getting smaller. So things like powdery mildew make their way to the old world.

Things like phylloxera make their way to the old world. And not only does, you know, Louis Pasteur's, you know, scientific inquiry become, you know, more fascinating, you know, just on an intellectual level. But, you know, that type of scientific inquiry becomes more necessary to solve, you know, these problems that have, you know, come about in the vineyards of the old world because, you know, the world is getting smaller. And, you know, so you have all of these small things. You have solutions to these very modern problems. And, you know, among them, you know, some soils that, you know, have become exhausted. We see chemical fertilizer really invented by Fritz Haber. He received a Nobel Prize for that in 1909. Before that, you know, all fertilizer was organic.

And then you see filtration at a molecular level, at a subatomic level, an outgrowth of the nuclear age. So all of these ways of making wine that we take for granted now really didn't come about and weren't popularized until after World War II because, you know, World War I to World War II period in the old world was pretty much a wash. And, you know, these great vineyards, this very romantic life that I described earlier, you know, this life that is, you know, guided by the rhythms of nature is abruptly torn asunder. And, you know, once it comes time to rebuild after World War II. Thank you foroser words like that.

From Anne Reg отп stores. And I think that's where I want to spend the rest of my time. It was, it was by nach ず Fritz Haber who founded Bunga. And there is a tiny bit of a f улиca, but that f olabilir. That was one of those bigger cities in India, where wins acontecer. One of been your own 1910, 1911, and conclude one of the world's largest vineyards themselves. You know, people enthusiastically embrace these modern interventions, they never look back, and something is lost in the process, something of that ancient rhythm, something of that, you know, mystical appreciation of, you know, life on the land and these styles of wine, you know, such as we enjoyed for the sake of this wine, which was made without any, you know, chemical invention, something is lost.

And I love this quote. This is from Inherit the Wind, and they're talking about, you know, scientific progress. They say, progress has never been a bargain. You have to pay for it. Sometimes I think there's a man who sits behind a counter and says, Madam, you can have a telephone, but you'll lose privacy and the charm of distance. Mr. You may conquer the air, but the birds will lose their wonder, and the clouds will smell of gasoline. And comparably, you know, in wine, we acquired all these means of making. We're making more wine than was ever made before and making wine that didn't suck. You know, a lot of, I don't want to glorify this, you know, pre-industrial wine that was abounding.

You know, a lot of it was plunk, a lot of it was vinegar, a lot of it was meh, you know, but, you know, that said, a lot of it was, you know, vital and alive in a way that was lost when, you know, the vignerons of Europe, you know, kind of consciously moved in a more modern direction. And, you know, come, you know, 1960, 1970 or so, there are, you know, these assorted voices in the old world that are beginning to bemoan this loss. And chief among them, a gentleman named Jules Chauvet. Jules Chauvet came from a winemaking family. He trained as a chemist. And he unlocked a lot of the mysteries of fermentation. One of the first people to scientifically document the process of malolactic fermentation, carbonic maceration.

He was a very astute taster and advocated for lowering sulfur levels in wine, sulfur being a hugely important preservative. That was another ancient innovation that was, you know, enthusiastically embraced by more modern viticulturalists. And he is one of the first people that says, you know, let us stop, you know, aggressively spreading these chemical treatments that are denuding the land and have stripped the soils and nutrients by the 60s and 70s. And Jules Chauvet wants us to make, you know, a strong 180 degree turn. He wants us to look back to these pre-industrial methods. That sustained the vineyards and, you know, created wines using natural yeast as opposed to the yeast created to ferment wine more efficiently in a lab.

But, you know, making wines that, you know, tended to have, you know, a more, you know, kind of one note, you know, a less, you know, kind of profound multifaceted kind of quality. You know, Jules Chauvet wants us to recapture that former glory. And he finds protégés particularly in Beaujolais, particularly in Marcel Lapierre, particularly in the Gang of Four. And some of you are tasting a wine from one of their disciples, the brothers Théardin. This is a Gang of Four. You can see Marcel Lapierre. He's the gentleman with glasses and a white beard. That's a goofy blogger in the background. But from left to right here, you have some of the foremost natural winemakers who were really among the first generation in France.

To start looking back and to aggressively promote and popularize the notion of making wine without chemical interventions in the vineyard and without a strong hand in the cellar, allowing the wine to ferment itself as it once did and intervening with sulfur as a preservative as little as possible. And these giants of the natural wine world are, from left to right, Jean Pauillard in profile, Jean-Paul Thévenet, Paul, known to his friends. Guy Breton, Petit Max in the fabulous pink sweater. Marcel Lapierre, who's kind of the leader of the gang. I'm not quite sure who that is on the right. The good-looking younger book is Thévenet's son, Charlie. He actually makes really lovely wine himself. And then that's a goofy blogger in the background.

But, you know, that's, you know, that they are kind of like the Beatles of, you know, the natural wine world. They're the ones who initially, in Beaujolais at least, you know, started spreading this gospel. And this gospel was picked up by other vignerons throughout France, among them a coterie of winemakers in the Loire Valley. The Loire Valley is very different, you know, in and of its own way than Beaujolais, a cooler climate. There's a much stronger tradition of making sparkling wine in the Loire Valley. And as such, you see these winemakers in the Loire Valley who are making wine. They're making wine in kind of a non-interventionist style. And they are, you know, embracing, you know, kind of working in this modality that is essentially pre-modern.

You know, that is, you know, trying to benefit from the wisdom of, you know, grandfathers and other forefathers. And, you know, among these, you know, kind of natural winemakers in the Loire, a few stand out. And a few were kind of the preeminent. Progenitors of this Petnat movement, because Petnat, as we know it, you know, hadn't kind of recaptured the modern imagination yet. But it was Christian Chassard and Thierry Pugelet who really kind of took up the banner. And Christian Chassard was working in Vouvray, Vouvray along the Loire River. Chenin Blanc is the source material. And he was working without sulfur. And sulfur inhibits the activity of the microbes that will ferment wine. And it also acts as a preservative. And it acts as a preservative and antioxidant.

But he was making wine without sulfur at all. And he noticed that in Vouvray, where very often the cellars get colder in the winter, and wine by happenstance is bottled the way, you know, our Italian friends here with a little bit of sugar. He noticed that if he was, you know, bottling this wine a little too early, you know, by accident, he would end up with something that was sparkling, you know, in the spring. And he took this wine, and he took what was ancient, and he rebranded it as 'hipster's wine'. And he wanted to do so. So, Jerry Puglia tells a story that he coined the phrase 'petnat' near the end of the 1990s for this accidental rediscovery. And we all adopted this term, which is both concise and clear.

And now it has passed into the everyday language of the viticultural world. And the importer Louis Drezner says that, you know, it's more like Chassard. He reclaimed a style that, you know, previously existed. Just like Marcel Lappierre rediscovered a style that, you know, that had already existed. In Beaujolais, they were reclaiming the style of their fathers and grandfathers and, you know, reclaiming it as something else. And they've been hugely successful at it. And so, next up, we're going to taste, you know, a petnat from Mont Louis. And I'm going to pull up a map here again of brands to situate Mont Louis for you. Zoe, you're enjoying this wine at home. What does this one taste like compared to the first offering that we had tried? I think that this one is much more champagne.

Like, if we want to say that, I get a little bit more of that little brioche, a little butteriness coming in. But it is still very light and very pleasant, very elegant. I love all the flowers on it. And it has a bit of that juicy student fruit, nectarines and peaches. And just like all my favorite summer things that I want, just like a fresh peach and like whipped cream. You know, it's quite gorgeous. And I really enjoy the texture of the wine as well because the bubbles are a little bit more subdued. I think that that's why I'm able to get more of those specific flavors that are going on. And you'll notice this wine has been disgorged. So, we're going to talk about that in a second.

You know, what is this whole disgorgement situation I talked about? Essentially, that minor sediment has been removed. So, you know, whereas for the sake of the Robosco, Robosco being a producer, but the Vivace Italian style wine that I tried earlier, this wine is murky. And we're going to, you know, introduce some wines that are murkier still for the sake of this lesson. But this wine is good. It's crystal clean. And what I love about it is that it's a wine that's made in this, you know, kind of very ancient style. This is made in the method Ancestral, which, again, is that, you know, continuous fermentation cycle, bottled early. But it's hugely sophisticated. And I think it points to this diversity that, you know, this method is capable of, you know, subsuming under one roof.

So, you know, there's not one cider like Petnat. A lot of them taste that way. But there are Petnats for people that don't kind of consider themselves traditional natty wine drinkers. You know, this is very much a natural wine. It's made in an ancient style. It's made with the minimum of intervention in the cellar and in the vineyard. But it tastes clean. It tastes sophisticated. It tastes as polished as any champagne that I can conjure. So the grape here is Chenin Blanc. It should be said that the winemaker here, a younger gentleman, ambitious, younger vineyard owner, he's actually the head of the Mont-Louis Growers Association, Mont-Louis being, again, the center of the Loire Valley. I did a terrible job of breaking down that map.

But had you been paying attention, it was close to Tours on the south bank of the Loire, across from Vouvray. So always languished in the shadow of Vouvray historically. And for the sake of, you know, this particular vineyard, he is now the president of the AOC. So he is setting, you know, the standard. The legal standard for these wines in his small corner of the French-speaking world, along with his wife. And there's actually a designation of origin for wines made in the Petnat style in Mont-Louis, which was the first of its kind in France. So typically in France, you know, these rebel winemakers, the Pusillets, the Chassards of the world, you know, they were making wine outside of the formally established French system. And, you know, the natural wine movement in France is very much a reaction against.

The French bureaucracy, which came to favor more kinds of industrial producers. And so, you know, a lot of these, you know, kind of iconoclastic, you know, Lapierre gang disciples, you know, pushed, you know, their way out of that system and made wine under kind of a, you know, more kind of like plebeian, Vendée France, you know, label. But what I think is really cool about the work of, you know, these younger wines. Makers is, you know, they're moving back, you know, to, you know, trying to make Petnat a part of, you know, enshrine it in law, you know, make it a part of, you know, the legal tradition of French wine and Damien in his, in his cohorts in Mont-Louis, Damien Delechaux, the gentleman to the right here, have enshrined it in law as of 2007.

You can make Petillon Original, which originates in Mont-Louis, which is the only designation of origin for Petnat in France, which I think is, is super cool. And, you know, I just. Love how sophisticated, seemingly sophisticated this wine is and tastes. And I think, you know, kind of, you know, flies in the face of, you know, this traditional notion of Petnat is something that is, you know, cider-like and more of a one-off and, you know, Petnat can be, you know, equally profound wine. And I would, you know, love to see the way that this particular one ages too. Zoe, do you have any questions from the commentary about the wines that we're drinking today? Absolutely. And we have some great questions.

And to start off, is it safe to assume that there's no dosage or a liqueur de tirage like there is in Champagne production? That's a, that's a, an excellent, almost a great question, but I don't know if that's a rerun at that point. But yeah, killer question. So, that whole process of introducing, you know, various liqueurs has everything to do with the fact in, in Champagne. That, you know, you're dealing with a finished wine. So Champagne is a two-stage process. There are two fermentations. The first fermentation makes a, what's called, what they, in Champagne, call Bonclair. And Bonclar is fully fermented dry wine. Whereas in making Petnat, the wine does not fully ferment first. The wine is essentially unfinished. And as a result, Petnat has all the ingredients. It's still fermenting.

It has sugar that's still fermentable. And it has yeast that are still active. So there's no need for, you know, the liqueur d'exposition, which is the catalyst for the secondary fermentation in Champagne. So they don't need that catalyst for the sake of making Petnat because the catalyst is already there. That's the beauty of bottling early because there's still yeast, there's still active, there's still sugar, and there's still water that's unconsumed. So there's no need to add you know grape moss, sugar water, what have you. It's one continuous fermentation process bottled early as opposed to the two-stage process that's carried out in Champagne. Fantastic. Are there any Calvados-aged Petnat? There fucking are. There are. We have them. They're definitely niche products. I love them. There's one. There's these blokes I drank with in Georgia.

So the uninitiated, Caldavri is a traditional Georgian amphora. I namedrop Georgia as the birthplace of wine as we know it, You know, 7,000, 8,000 years worth of vintages. A couple of Frenchmen, actually, from Bouchy-Sarton country, they make Petnat in Caquetti, originally fermented, initially fermented for the first part of the fermentation process in Caldavri and then bottled early. And it's stupidly delicious. We carry, have carried them off and on at Tailcoat. They're, you know, very much a niche product. They don't make a ton of them. It's hard to make wine at scale in Caldavri. I hope to bring them in again. They're, they're really cool. But yeah, that does, that does exist. So glad to hear it. How do you suggest serving unfiltered Petnàt in particular because it's not a decanting situation and you're going to have all of those strabits at the bottom?

Yeah, I think it's a good question. I mean, the bits are fun. So, you know, I mean, this is a wine from Nancy Ireland. We're going to take a full tour of, I want to, you know, you know, really address the wines that you guys, you know, purchased through the store. And, you know, I feel like, you know, given that we sold the Baker's Dozen, you know, I want to, you know, give them all a proper shout out. But, you know, we're focusing on a few just for the sake of time. You know, it should be said that one of the things I love about this wine is that it's not just a wine that's been made in the past. It's a wine that's been made in the past.

And I think that's what's so beautiful about the wine world. You know, so I pulled up that picture earlier of Damien de la Cheneau. And, you know, and I spoke to this ancient culture of winemaking and name dropped the Gang of Four. Well, in that generation, the Gang of Four generation, so, you know, they're in their 60s now, 60s, 70s. Sadly, Marcel Lapierre, the gang leader, passed away in 2010. You know, but, you know, people didn't travel that much, you know, so in that generation. So, you know, they were channeling the wisdom of their forefathers. And their outlook was more provincial than global. Subsequent generations, so the Lapierre estate now run, you know, very ably by his children, Camille, his daughter, and Matthew, his son. Awesome, awesome people.

And, you know, it should be said that the outlook is more global. You know, so someone has an idea that is resurrecting, you know, this ancient style of wine, and it spreads globally. Because, you know, in Damien's case, he studied winemaking in Montpellier, which is like one of the Harvards of French viticulture in Bordeaux, but he worked in California, he worked in South Africa. Everybody, when they're, you know, working their way up in the wine world, they, you know, they globe hop because, you know, the most significant time in the wine calendar is harvest, and, you know, you can spend harvest in the southern hemisphere and kind of like double your pleasure for the sake of learning, you know, kind of bringing the most you can out of your wine calendar.

And it's super cool that, you know, there is this lingua franca of wine. And especially for people that are interested in working the style, natty wine, there's very much, you know, this codification of wisdom. And so you get this like world tour of petnats from these people that, you know, have traveled, have researched these wines online that, you know, kind of speak the same language. And Nancy Ireland is one of those. She's in the Finger Lakes of New York. She's a badass. She looks like a, you know, aging hipster. She kind of is an aging hipster. I was actually trading notes with Nancy. And so she is rigorously scientific. So, she comes out of the UC Davis system, which is fascinating because UC Davis, you know, very much in the United States, promulgated this notion of, you know, industrial wine.

Post-World War II, UC Davis was, you know, spreading this gospel of chemical fertilizers, inoculated yeast, sulfur, sulfur, sulfur. And Nancy was very much kind of a part of that in her training. But she loves PetNat. Yeah. And she, you know. You know, is increasingly embracing, you know, these more kind of, you know, frivolous, you know, idiosyncratic styles of wine. And I asked her what she loves about it. And she says, she said, you know, her trading text said, the unpretentiousness, it's just frivolous efforts. It should never be taken seriously. and she said, never in all caps. And, you know, we need more wine like that. And, you know, and I think, you know, just to, you know, bring things full circle, you know, I think in, you know, loving one another.

Well, you know, a lot of that is about humility. You know, loving anything well is about humility and just, you know, basking in the fun of it all. And, you know, I love the way that Petnat brings that to the wine party. And, you know, natty wine, natural wine movement has its faults. You know, it gets sanctimonious. It gets lost up its own asshole. You know, that happens. You know, anytime you have a revolution, you know, you're going to get jackovins. But, you know, what's fun about it is necessary corrective to, you know, the, you know, conscientious, you know, you know, cellar dwellers of the world. And, you know, these are wines that in demand and, you know, should be enjoyed, you know, prima facie as fun, which gets to the question you asked circuitously, which was Lees, which is this whole filtration thing.

So I know you can't see this. This is a terrible, terrible illustration. But there we go. We're going to we're going to swirl this one up. I want to open it. But look, this is murky. Look at look at that. You know, this is a Portuguese from Maria Pato. Pato, daughter of another famous winemaker, Luis Pato, sister of Philippa Pato, who some of you remember from previous lessons. But you're going to be left in any sparkling wine with sediment because it's unfinished business in the wine world. Anytime you carry out a fermentation process, you get dead yeast and particulate in the bottle. And the way they remove that in champagne is through a process called disgorgement. So they take the wine, which is murky. You saw how murky my wine was.

And they situate it on its side in what's called riddling racks. So this is a gentleman. He is called a rûmeur. Rummage is a process. The rûmeur goes from bottle to bottle. He twists it lovingly, quarter turn every day. And through that action, the sediment that you just saw in the bottle comes into the neck. And at that point, once it is settled into the neck of the bottle. And I did get I got a picture of that as well because it's wonderfully evocative. It should be said, too, that, you know, the crown cap that is kind of like the hipster signifier for that most, if not all, champagne ages with the crown cap. It doesn't age with cork. Of course, fucking expensive and a pain in the ass.

And they can, you know, kind of diminish to new to wine through quarantine. Typically, a champagne ages with a crown cap, a beer bottle cap. But over time, if the rumor has done its job right, you know, correctly, this lees settles into the bottom of the bottle, at which point you plunge it into an ice-cold saltwater solution because saltwater is at a lower temp than regular water can freeze at a lower temp than than regular water. You plunge the neck of the bottle into that freezing sluice and you get a frozen plug that you then evacuate when you age six is cap. And then at that point, you add the cork. And you get crystal-clear wine. Now, you can do that with PET and that as well.

And it should be said, the new one that we tried was disgorged. And a lot of the more serious PET and that producers in France are moving more toward disgorgement. But, you know, I think it's a wine that can be appreciated both ways. And I think, you know, the fun of it is that you can also make farmer fizz that is lovably natty and un-disgorged. So for somebody that, you know, is hugely scientific, you know, like Nancy, I feel like her PET and that in this case from. You know, which we're not selling. This was a gift from Nancy that, you know, felt fun to unlock for today. You know, you can take something that you take hugely seriously in your day job.

You're making char, you know, you're making, you know, some of the greatest Riesling in the world. You know, people demand a certain level of consistency out of that. They demand, you know, something without chunky bits. But you can also on the side make something that's natty and irreverent and inconsistent and have fun with wine. God forbid under the pet and that umbrella. And that is what, you know, at the end of the day, natural wine and Petit Naturel should be all about. Cole, we're going to kick it over to you for your toast. And then we're going to make our tour and answer all the questions. First, though, Cole, did you come up with a tasting note for your wine that is not red? Yeah, it's I Googled wine words.

Oh, nice. Yeah. Full-bodied. Full-bodied red. Can I see your bottle? Can I? Do you have your bottle on hand? No. Someone's pouring for you from a virtual. Excellent. Great tasting note. Shout out to you. OK, well, yeah, no. Thank you guys again so much for letting us share the message of one love. It's so important that the education gets to literally everyone in the world. So if what I said today resonated with you at all, please check out our website or donate. But cheers to healthy relationships on Valentine's Day. Cheers to open communication and examples of healthy love. And Bill suggested that I also say alone together. So, cheers everyone. Alone together as always. Thank you so much for joining us, guys. Cheers.

Alright, so all the unfinished business for the sake of these wines that I should have covered. I'm going to run through them kind of in between questions. But hit us up with some. Rapid fire me. Let's do lightning round today. Absolutely will do. But I'm going to put Cole on the spot one more time. This is my favorite question to ask about drinking wine. It’s the most important. Oh, God. Do you like it? Do I like drinking wine? Yeah. If you like the juice that's in your glass, it's the only thing that matters. Exactly. Yeah, I like it. You talk about it. If you like it. Number one. Only question that's needed. Thank you. No, I love it. It's very good. Love it. We have a Greek, we have a Greek chorus in gold backhand.

It's amazing. What do you have for me, Zach? Did you talk a little bit about the insane sparkling wine market when it goes around days like February 14th or around New Year's and Christmas and how that fluctuates? So this is a fascinating realization for me in the midst of pandemic. So, you know, we went from running a restaurant to restaurant. So essentially running a website and running like a, you know, wine store at Reveilleur's Hour. And I didn't realize how seasonal the wine market is, you know, not, you know, just in terms of what people will drink. I knew that already, you know, like there's this, you know, point in time around the, you know, vernal equinox when people just spontaneously decide to drink white wine and rosé.

And if you don't catch it right, you're ordering this just off. But, you know, additionally, there are these other cycles, and there's like boom, like feast or famine, you know, people just like. Get their drink on around the holidays, which makes sense, you know, pressure, family, all those things, leave one to the bottle. But, you know, and then people, you know, go; you know, January is a terrible month because, you know, people are drying out and, you know, they get back on it come Valentine's Day. But, you know, yeah, we sell more sparkling wine around Valentine's Day, around New Year's. I just want to encourage people not to treat sparkling wine as a niche product; it shouldn't be a niche thing. It is a wine for and end of all seasons.

Cole talked about. A full bodied sparkling red wine. You know, they're they're not all coquettish ingenues. You know, there are, you know, some substantive, meaty, brawny, sparkling wines out there. And, you know, the brawn of it all, you know, lends, you know, lends itself to, you know, a variety of different applications. So, you know, fizz in wine is just a fun thing to appreciate in all seasons. So don't don't, you know, kind of just relegate it to, you know. So Valentine's Day and or New Year's, you know, kind of stature, you know, for the sake of, you know, you're you're drinking at home. I encourage you, you know, to to try all any and all things out of season. You know, I love Rosé in all seasons. I love Riesling in all seasons.

And I certainly love Petnat in all seasons. So this is a I promise to kind of intersperse questions with with, you know, a bit of wisdom about these individual wines. This is Grunewald in a blend from this beautiful gentleman. Chris. Who was actually been to the restaurant. We did a schnitzel and Petnat event once upon a time. You know, it's an amazing combination. I was actually I was somewhat upset that it wasn't more widely attended than it was. But it should be said that Austrian and German winemakers aren't the most dynamic personalities in the world. So, but the wines are awesome. So I screwed up on your blend is from this corner of the winemaking universe. And I'm actually having to help myself for the sake of the bridal because it's predominantly Grunewald Liener.

But it's a it's a bit of a kitchen sink and it's multi-vintage. Christoph Hock is very much working in kind of like a pre-industrial modality. He's along the Danube, but he's on the south side of the Danube, just east of the Wachau. And he is, you know, working on these limestone soils that make acid-driven wines that lend themselves really beautifully to sparkling wine. Kalkspitz means 'chalk' and bubbles because he's on chalk soils that are more characteristic of champagne than they are of Austria. This is going to Grunewald Liener, Zweigelt, Sabi, the Blau-Portugesser, and Muscat-Altonel. I had to read that from the back of the label. I didn't remember those. I'm deeply sorry. I love that this wine tastes like licking a salty rock. Christoph is a bit of an iconoclast.

He took over his family's winery and wasn't happy with, you know, the kind of safe wines that they were making. And he, you know, made a full-on kind of maverick Topka. And then he took on, you know, your unsafe turn and started making Petnat. So good on you, Christoph. More questions, Zoe, what do you got? How does champagne age over time? Beautifully. How does Petnat age over time? Beautifully, and I'm curious, Zoe. So what's fascinating is these undiscorded styles. You know, again, Maria Pato, you know, look, look at that slurry. So the fact that that's left in the bottle is a biological safeguard, you know, as pure and more effective, arguably, than any sulfite you could add to a wine. So, you know, the bottle cap, you know, as long as it's good, will be a great seal.

Actually be less oxygen transmissive than cork. And I think, you know, in 20 years time, I hope that, you know, Chambers Street in New York, you know, just stumbles upon someone's cellar of 2020, you know, Petit Homme Original. Or, yeah, so I, it's not the kind of thing that people, I think, think about laying down. But it has this really compelling biological safeguard for the sake of, you know, the leaves left in the bottle. And so I would like to think, coupled with the acidity, that it would age much better than, you know, people might, you know, commonly expect of something that's essentially kind of like fun and frivolous. For the sake of these wines. I've got another one in the mix here. This is a Grillo Gamay blend.

Incidentally, this is like just on the face of it, one of my favorite bottles. He just, that guy just looks like a winemaker. That is Sebastian Brunet. I feel like, you know, I want to say, you know, some, some people, some of my favorite bartenders, they look like bartenders. You know, they just, you know, like Andrew DeWitt. My former colleague. Like, great dude. But he just looks like a bartender. He looks like someone, you know, even if you didn't know him, you know, you could walk into a bar. He'd pour you something. And you could tell him, like, your deepest, darkest secrets. You know, just because of who he is. And, you know, how, you know, hospitable he is. And he just, like, makes this guy just looks like he came out of the womb looking that way.

With, like, three-day stubble and, you know, pouring wine. But Sebastian Brunet makes wine. He makes wine in the Loire Valley, which is kind of a pet-nat, grand zero in the modern era. I love this grape. It's called Grolo. It means a crow. First, the fact that it's very, like, a dark kind of skinned variety. And the crow is typically a blending agent. It goes into rosé more often than not, honestly. But in this case, it goes into a fabulous fizzy wine, a little Gamay in the mix. This one is disgorged. So, again, it's fascinating to me. You know, you see these. You know, people working with pet-nat as this fun one-off. And, you know, it's, like, why bother to, you know, disgorge? It's pain in the ass.

You know, why not just, you know, have fun with this all and, you know, leave the lees in the mix. But, you know, it should be said that equally, you know, you do have people wanting to take the wines more seriously. And, you know, it will be said that, like, cleaner wine, purer wine, you know, it is, you know, more expressive of the wine. And, you know, a lot of fruit from vineyard quality wine with that murky sediment mix tends to gravitate more toward, you know, the cider-like, sour beer-like places it ages. So I think the more serious producers are disgorging more readily, more frequently in the Lower Valley and he's among them. What else do you guys have? Could you talk a little bit about the use of sulfur in sparkling wines in particular?

Yeah. So it's very difficult to add sulfur. So you essentially can't really add sulfur at disgorgement. So typically you would add sulfur earlier in the winemaking process. And, you know, almost all pet gnats are, you know, unsulfured. You know, it's kind of, it's one of those things like it is a living wine. And, you know, Nancy says that herself. That's what she, you know, really likes. She really adores about it is that it is, you know, a living wine. You know, so typically it's a hands-off, no-sulfur situation. That presents issues when it comes to something that we haven't touched on yet, which is the mouse. The mouse is a bit of Berman rodent that exists in a lot of natural wines. So, you know, natural wine is amazing as such.

But a lot of them are hugely flawed. And a lot of people will, you know, kind of adopt the natural wine brand, you know, to cover over those flaws. There's this great meme floating around with a, basically a hole in a tank and someone slaps a sticker on it. And the idea being that, you know, it's like flawed wine is the hole. And a fancy label and creative branding is the, you know, the sticker. And that's, you know, what natural wine, you know, can be about. And there's a lot of truth to that. A lot of pet gnats get mousy as fuck. The mouse is insidious. So it is the creature of a variety of different microbiological taints that occur in a low sulfur environment.

And they create this perception of, it reminds me the most of hamster shavings. It is this unforgettable. And it's like cork taint, but it's more unforgettable, you know, for some than others. Like my colleague, Joel Tyler, you know, is very sensitive to it. But it's just like, it's really, like I had gerbils as a kid and occasionally, you know, cleaned their tank. Small rodents are terrible pets, it should be said. I just want to, you know, the parents out there, never get your children hamsters or gerbils. They're just terrible pets. They offer nothing. They're just a pain in the ass to clean out of. Occasionally they breed, but it's just gross. You know, don't go there. But it smells like their cage. It tastes like their cage. And no one wants that.

And it's insidious because it's a, like, on the olfactory level, it's really fascinating. It only emerges as a wine, comes up in temp, comes up in pH. So, you know, it's only something that, and you can't smell it. It's not like cork taint. So cork taint, you can smell. You know, you can smell cork taint, but you can't smell mouse. You can kind of get a sense of it on the nose through VA and stuff like that. You can smell some other things, but it never really registers until it's on the palate. And so, there are a lot of mousy, defective pet naps because working without sulfur is like, you know, a trapeze artist working without the net. But the people that do it well, you know, do it oh so well.

But, you know, I think the people that do it well, by and large, they add a little bit of sulfur prior to, you know, maybe initially during fermentation or, you know, prior to bottling. You know, to knock back, you know, some of the harsher microbial actors that were made. And then they make something mousey. So there you go. I went on my diet drive. Slovakian pet nap. Pasecki Lanke is a native Eastern European variety. I think, you know, you have these corners of the wine world that have been making wine in natural style, like these lands that time forgot, that we addressed last week for the sake of Portugal. Eastern Europe, so hot right now, The Hansel of natural wine. And they're making pet nap. They're making pet nap on the skins in this case.

So this is orange wine with tiny bubbles. You know, hipster psalms. Eat your heart out. It's fucking delicious. It tastes cider-like. But this one in particular is like hugely sophisticated too. I adore it. You know, seek it out. I can't pronounce any of the nomenclatures. It's Pignica, a shot cold. And I promise at some point we will do a proper Eastern European, pan-Eastern European lesson for the sake of Slovakia, you know, the former Czech Republic, Romania, God forbid, Moldova, et cetera. We're going to get there. I promise. Because there's a lot to unpack. At any rate. What else do you guys have? Yeah, that bottle is one of my absolute favorites. Just be very careful. It has a higher PSI than you'd expect. It blows up on people sometimes.

Have we spoken about the duck wine? Maria Pato? The Jao Pato? The Ferran Perez? Oh, we've got now. So this is. This is from Filippa Pato's sister, Luis Pato's daughter, who makes wine under a pseudonym, Jao Pato, which is kind of fascinating to me because I was reading a lot of poetry from Fernando Pessau, who we quoted in our previous lesson, who has a million pseudonyms as well. So it's something about the Portuguese love of pseudonyms, which I think is kind of cool. Like, I dig that about the Portuguese. They have a lot of fun, obviously, with the fact that Pato means duck in Portugal. So they all lean into the duck thing. This is very much in the slapping a hipster label over a flawed wine camp.

But it's not flawed, which is lovely. This one spends a better part of a week on the skins. It's a grape called Ferran Perez Maria Gomes. So even with the great names, the Portuguese are embracing these pseudonyms. From region to region. You know, orange wine for the uninitiated comes from white grapes that are made like red wine. So the white wine aged on the skins. So skin contact plus white grapes equals orange for the sake of this offering. You know, a lot of these kind of pet names, they kind of like, you know, gravitate to this cider-like kind of quality. And I think this is definitely one among them. But it still has this, like, fun, crunchy, tropicalia that Maria Gomes has. I favor so for now Perez is like the masculine side of the equation.

I prefer the Maria Gomes side of the grape. But, like, it does feel like a superhero alias or, you know, like a drag queen name or something along those lines. Like, you know, by day, a workaday lawyer. But by night, you know, Maria Gomes, you know, working like drag queen brunch, I think, is kind of a fun, yeah, exactly. As men on, like, three snaps in a Z formation, as men on film would say. All right. What else you got, Jo? Yeah. So following suit, is natural wine your answer? And if your character is all wrong, what does this mean? So what was the, sorry, I missed the kind of the original context for the question, though. For the Maria Pato wine, it's natural wine.

On the bottle, there is a sticker, and it says, 'If natural wine is your answer, if your character is all wrong.' And I wanted to know what you thought on this. I didn't even notice that. That's on a wine? We usually don't have these things on bottles of wine. I just wanted to know what you thought. Wow! So I have expressive wine from, that's the, what is the quote? 'Natural wine is your answer.' Yeah. So mine says, 'Is natural wine your answer?' If all your character is wrong. Where is that listed? Like on that side of the bottle? Oh. That guy? Oh. Oh, cool! Yeah. I didn't even notice that. It's like a riddle. It's like a Chinese. Wow. That's awesome. It's a fortune cookie. It's a fucking fortune cookie.

Mine is massage my ego. Feel the duck man spirit. #. All right. So this could taste. I don't know. It tastes like gasoline and I would order it just for the Chinese. How did I not notice that? So that is, there's like a fortune on every bottle. I will be bringing in a pallet of this wine just to discover how many, you know, fortunes they, they, you know, came up with. Those are actually good fortunes too. I feel like more often than not, you know, I get a fortune cookie and it just feels like you wonder who writes the fortune cookie. It's like the person at the what's the nail color? I always love the person that comes up with the nail color names. Like kinky. OPI. Yeah. I love the OPI names.

I feel like the the fortune cookie guy is like somehow related to the OPI guy or woman, but you know, that's that's amazing. And those are not lazy fortunes. Those are, those are actually like good fortunes. I think, and I I want the I feel like the the fortune cookie people should embrace like hashtags for the sake of their their exercise. Yeah. I didn't notice that, but you know, we'll be carrying all of this wine for many reasons, but I feel like that, like just, you know, it's hipster Somme cred just went through the roof. You know, if it was like, if there was a hipster Somme wine, you know, you know, stock market, you know, I would, I would buy, buy, buy, you know, it would be the, it would be the GameStop of the, you know, hipster wine world.

At any rate, thank you for noticing that Zoe. Yours says again, what? What was it? Mike says, is natural wine your answer if your character is all wrong? Is, is, is, how is that punctuated? There's a, there's a question mark at the end. So it's just one continuous sentence. Is natural wine your answer if your character is all wrong? I'm thinking the translation right? So, you know, like something can happen, but also that's the most, I mean, that's exactly how I've read fortune cookies. Is natural wine your answer if your character is all wrong? That's, that feels like an indictment. That's like one of those fortunes that it's like the dark fortune. It's like, you know, yeah, yeah. It's, like, you know, I don't know.

I can't put this like when you get a fortune and just like, you know, thanks for piling on, fortune cookie. You know, I've had enough, had a shitty day already. And, you know, already like the, yeah, the fortune cookie people like, you know, somehow knew it anyway. But, you know, natural wine is not a panacea. It should be said that natural wine is as varied and problematic as normal wine. At any rate, what else you have to say? Sorry, this is just really funny. Please, if you're, if you have purchased the gelato and you have fortunes, please let us know what they are. I'm curious. Do you have any others? They asked us to see if we could get, if there was like a diverse amount of. I didn't realize that was a thing.

That's amazing. Alright. Do you have any more questions? I'll throw out the last spot I haven't spoken to. This is Matjež Slovenian. And again, like, I love that, you know, the natural wine world, for all its faults, embraces these corners of the world that, you know, made wine for generations upon generations, but, you know, are just now reemerging onto the global wine scene. Slovenian, one of our favorites. We've featured Matjeu2019 wines before. Their Riesling on the skins has a cult following for good reason. I like to think that we sell more of that wine than any other, you know, merchant in the, you know, you know, 50 states. But, you know, I'll probably be disabused of that notion. This is a grape called Sipong, which is the Tokaj grape, otherwise known as Ferberment in Hungary.

It's very Riesling-like. Matjej has a golden touch. Everything he makes tastes clean and sophisticated, but, you know, also, you know, live wire and electric. You know, so it's the best kind of natural wine. I am often fond of saying that I don't like natural wines that are ostentatiously natural, where it feels like the artifice supersedes the art. I feel like, you know, this particular winemaker, Matjej, is a sneaker. You know, he, you know, is all about the end product. And, you know, he works naturally as possible, but it's a means to an end, as opposed to the end in and of itself. And, you know, art should work that way. What else you got, Jen? Any helpful hints for sabering? Yeah, I actually thought about that coming into this session.

So a couple of things working against you. Obviously, the crown cap. Please don't try it at home. You know, sabering a crown, sabering like a bottle cap, not a thing. Have you known of anybody who's tried that, though? Have you had success at sabering a bottle cap? Yeah, it's not, it's not cute. The pressure is so low. So, you really have to, instead of when sabering, you're just taking like the seam of the glass and going up and down, and that's just the pressure is going to magically make it appear. You're kind of like, I flipped it a little bit at the, I don't know. 15th time I tried. But, I mean, it will, it will happen. When are you doing all the sabering? I feel like you have more sabering stories.

Saber a lot. I just like, it took a really long time to start sabering. I was involved into already having my certified pin by the time that I actually sabered for the first time. And then it just kind of became a thing. Yeah. Great. Great. Good on you. I've never tried that. It feels like, you know, a lot of work for very little payoff, because you just end up with this like little sad nub. You know? It's like Hedwig and the Angry Inch of a top of a bottle of wine, as opposed to, you know, something more satisfying and plump in the way of a cork with, you know, glass around it. But I don't know. I wouldn't encourage it.

Although, I mean, like, and also you have like the thing that makes cork, that thing that makes sabering like work ostensibly is the higher pressure in a, you know, champagne bottle. And, you know, the pressure is a little lower. I mean, it's like probably two to three atmospheres instead of like the four to five to six you get in champers. But, you know, with a bottle that's properly corked, so like there's no, so like the Mont-Louis is actually corked, so there's no reason you can't savor that. Just get it really cold. Do it outside. And really dry. Sorry? Really dry. Like if you take it out of ice, like it has to be completely dry. That friction is part of the way. Oh, really? The friction is good? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's why you get the French people with their little. You don't want to lube it up. You want, you want the. You heard, heard. Fascinating. It should be said, too, that like I had never had a sabering false start until New Year's. So I fucking killed it on New Year's Eve at Tail of Goat because I always, I always give the New Year's toast. But we gave it at Tail of Goat this year at nine o'clock instead of midnight because we're legally obligated to close our doors at 10 under pandemic. And I had to search for a jurisdiction where it was turning midnight at our nine o'clock, which is really hard because it's basically the middle of the Atlantic. And it's not like the Pacific where island nations are a dime a dozen.

The only thing I could come up with was South Georgia Island in the far South Atlantic. So we were toasting with the dozen plus citizens of South Georgia Island. And it's summer there. So there are more biologists, you know, looking after the birds. But there aren't a lot of them. And I don't know how many of them drink. But at any rate, we were toasting with them. But I savoraged a Magnum for the first time and I fucking slayed it like perfect. Yeah. And then I met my wife at a friend's like backyard for a socially distanced like fire pitting thing and brought some champagne with me and, you know, told them that I'd save it. And they were like, oh, cool. Why don't you save it for us?

And then I hadn't gotten the wine cold enough. So I took off the cork. And it's just like, you know, the cork fell off. And then they had a couple other bottles that were lying around. And I don't know if the glass wasn't good or what, but like I had like all these all these false starts. And it was it was hugely embarrassing. It was it was like, I swear this never happens to me. But it was it was really bad. But it was like I didn't I lost my touch for. So maybe I just need to be in a restaurant context. Maybe the pressure of the restaurant moment like makes the makes the saver. Well, we're going to have to revisit sabering for wine.

Well, it should be said to Alton Brown and I'll afford it in the recap. It has like the Alton Brown is the fucking best. You know, I aspire to, you know, his only he's like lovely, like scientific, nerdy, but like irreverent, you know, kind of charm. I aspire to, you know, adopt myself. But he's the best video on it. But like there you have a wine bottle and then and the way bottles are made. Even in an industrial context, the glass is blown. But then the lip is affixed afterwards. So that's the weakest point where the lip meets the rest of the weakest point in the bottle. And then the bottle itself has a seam in terms of the way glass is made. And you can find it.

And where that seam meets the lip is the weakest point. And that's your target. And, you know, so it's important. And it's important to get the bottle as cold as hell. I do it outside in the interest of safety. And, you know, point it away from, you know, anyone. And Zoe claims friction is an essential part of it, which I find hugely fascinating. Yeah. Make it dry. Yeah. What else you got, Zoe? Any additional questions about the Pet Nats? Well, can we disgorging the Republican Party? But, you know, let's be honest. I actually. So that's a. I feel like there needs to be some kind of sommelier lines like 'disgorging the Republican Party'. That's great. You know, I'll settle for, I think there's a place for, you know, like old school Burkean conservatism.

You know, like that. There's a place for that as like a check on, you know, the rational exuberance of, you know, you know, the progressives of the world. But but yes, I think in Trumpism needs to be disgorged. I don't know how we're going to do that, though. I had this whole theory politically that Trumpism was like chemotherapy for the state. You know, so it was just. But you know, I don't know if I believe that anymore after um, you know, 43 of the 50 you know voted against impeachment, but you know this: this was our we took a stark political turn; I don't know how we can bring it back to to pet net that feels irrecoverable.

We're gonna bring it back with healthy communication; we're gonna bring it back with like joy, joy we've got joy back in our life, yes, yes, exactly, exactly! If ever there was a face of abusive relationships, it is one Donald Trump. Uh, I think we've all you know been in the midst of an abusive relationship with this man for you know the better part of his life, um, and certainly the entirety of his presidency and both residencies so um, if anyone needs to you know um heed Cole's advice um, and certainly the entirety of his presidency and both residencies so um, if anyone needs to you about how to love better it is uh Donald Trump and I i hope that Um, you know Melania's friends if you're out there if you're listening um, you know you know use it you know take advantage of the resources you know they're they're available um, you know I I you know uh yeah we we wish the best for you uh but he's he's irrecoverable um you know there there is people and narcissism in this world um he doesn't even he doesn't even drink um which is like the least satisfying part of it he has his own vices you know I know I know um all right so that feels like that feels like an appropriate uh I like I like where we've gone with this lesson uh Cole do you do you want to add anything else thank you for for. Hanging out, uh, we saw was that your was that your paramour in the background, yes, that's my butler for the evening enjoying the lesson from afar. Exactly, yep, he is actually cutting; I said he's actually cutting the lesson from afar and he's actually cutting the lesson from afar, cutting onions in the kitchen and crying. So do you uh, do you have any parting thoughts for us, Cole? No, seriously, thank you so much; I wrote in the chat obviously, you haven't been able to look at it but I think that you know more about wine than I know about literally anything. So um, this has been so impressive and thank y'all for so much for including me. In my community, and allowing me to just share something that means so much to me. This has been such a fun treat on Valentine's Day, uh, delightful, uh, thank you all, uh, for hanging out this long um I, I will say I love the point uh of the lesson where things devolve and they cease to be about the topic at hand and just become a hangout uh and I would hang out longer but didn't have to go home and walk the fucking dog, but uh, I love, love you all, uh, Salu. Happy Valentine's Day um please give to the One Love Foundation if you haven't already cheers, thank you Cole, thank you for your team, you're doing great, thank you for having me, thank you for Having me thank you for amazing work.